Eden Research Share Discussion Threads

[supersonico] 18/8/2018 12:19

Thanks Investing, We can only Hope..

I'm expecting a Blue sky Unicorn RNS at some point..

[investingisatrickygame] 18/8/2018 11:46

Super,

Logical thinking.

I await the Sipcam co-encapsulation RNS. To me that should reveal all. Weeks or literally a few months away?!

Source: collaboration agreement RNS

[supersonico] 18/8/2018 11:39

Investing,

One of he key factors that persuade me that there is way more here is that our declared partners have spent a warehouse load of their own money on Eden tech. They are very excited about the opportunities it offers. While Eden present the inverse face of underwhelm about their High potency micro encapsulation.. This tech is dynamite imo but Eden are not publicly shouting about it's potential ... yet ..no analyst reports/ valuations or projection etc . Why??

They have a plan which has been evolving for 4-5 years and has involved new agreements with TT and revised agreements with their established partners.

Sipcam and Eastman have made big investments and I believe Bayer have beyond the Companion animal products.

Eden told us in 2013 'the potential for products that are being developed by Bayer using Eden's technologies is greater'.

I don't believe for one minute that Bayer said we will use your ground breaking tech just for 4 companion animal products, when they were spending millions on new research facilities around the world to develop technologies to address the likes of endemic Herbicide or insecticide Resistance which can only be seen as the Green revolution in crisis in my view.

I expect TT/Eden to have sub-licenced the IP to Bayer and the Eden 29.9% investment in TT was a mechanism of Eden benefiting from the future Bayer product commercialisation.

The parallel TT / Bayer delays add to my conviction.

Having a senior Bayer insider come on board together with the grand industry leader talk from Sean Smith convince my deluded mind that we are only seeing the Tip of a substantial Edenberg.

[investingisatrickygame] 18/8/2018 10:59

Could Bayer AND Sipcam both co-encapsulate weed killer product offerings in the same target market, but with varying combined formulations?

I don't see why not. Eden facilitating, Sipcam and Bayer competing. Some of Sipcam's customer base may welcome that opportunity in light of where the industry is with the Glyphosate/Roundup debate.

[investingisatrickygame] 18/8/2018 10:55

Super,

What could be plausible about your thinking IS that Bayer could argue its not Glyphosate, but Monsanto's formulation. Hence, taking Glyphosate and blending it with Eden's natural active ingredients in Sustaine could have some mileage.

If so, Bayer would argue all scientific studies support Glyphosate and overnight Bayer could re-brand and re-image both product and themselves and confine this mess to the history of Monsanto.

I wonder if that's at all possible?

[sandcrab2] 17/8/2018 21:24

Years?

Decades

[investingisatrickygame] 17/8/2018 17:08

It probably is perfect timing to be a new investor, especially if you're short on patience :).

Many here have been on Xanax for the last few years!!!!!!!!!!

[dplewis1] 17/8/2018 16:42

Thanks for that - useful rundown for me as a new investor here.

[investingisatrickygame] 17/8/2018 16:17

So amid all of this discussion about Glyphosate, let's remind ourselves again(boring) of what we can reasonably expect within 16 weeks from Eden.

1. Possible additional share purchases from CEO, Sean Smith
2. First share purchase from the Chairman
3. TT launch of Head Lice delivering income for Eden in the 2018 accounts
4. Bayer launch of 4 animal health care products delivering income for Eden in the 2018 accounts
5. US distributor for Mevalone announced
6. Sipcam updates as follows
a. News on the state of Mevalone distribution in Australia
b. Updates on other distribution rights granted by Eden
c. Update on the state of co-encapsulation with Sipcam's active ingredients
d. Any other Sipcam developments that have taken place

All of point 6 comes from this Eden RNS

7. Interim report and forward looking statements which may cover things like
8. Eastman update. They're presenting Cedroz
in Brazil at a bio-conference in a few months-why?!

A) Further updates on the Sipcam agreement including the possibility of the making a board appointment
B) New Toll Manufacturing sites as stated at the AGM
C) News from TT on deodorant going commercial


There are others, but I think these are the most imminent from my understanding and these should be the price drivers in the coming months.

Everyone of course, has their reasons for selling including someone today, but for me, with 7 bits of news that we know are due pre-Christmas, it's a shame for those that have to or choose to release their shares now with just 18 weeks to know all of the above.

[supersonico] 17/8/2018 13:33

Wild Theory Time.. for Nutters only.

Lets imagine Bayer are not altogether as Unwise as they look at the moment and they bought Monsanto expecting the Case to go their way but also because they had another way of using Glyphosate which they planned to roll out as a positive PR initiative by ditching the formulation chemistry.

Imagine further that Bayer have a product ready, (which for commercial reasons they could not reveal to Shareholders so they avoided shareholder approval for the merger ) that reduces the need or ditches completely the need for the added Formulation components, there by reducing the toxicity of the Herbicide.. perhaps that system used Glyphosate with a high potency micro encapsulation system..

You priority and strategy now would be to Protect the reputation of Glyphosate, which is what we are seeing unfold from the Bayer PR.

They may try to argue that ..Monsanto's RoundUp Formulation did the damage not Glyphosate.
It will be interesting to see Bayer's future PR viewed thru this Thesis?

[supersonico] 17/8/2018 11:41

Bayer Vows Stronger Roundup Defense as It Absorbs Monsanto aka Bayer says the Milk in Mars bars don't rot you teeth. aka What the He'll are Bayer doing?



'Bayer said it believes U.S. courts ultimately will find that glyphosate, the main ingredient in Roundup, wasn’t responsible for the cancer of the California school groundskeeper who was the plaintiff in last week’s case. It’s planning an appeal. Monsanto has insisted for decades that glyphosate is safe'.



'Bayer said it believes US courts ultimately will find that glyphosate, the main ingredient in Roundup, wasn’t responsible for the cancer of the California school groundsman who was the plaintiff in last week’s case'.

The Statements are interesting and perhaps intentionally confusing as it misrepresents the case which was not about Glyphosate, it was about Roundup. The Groundskeeper used Roundup which mixes Glyphosate and Formulation chemicals which amplify it's potency. Neat Glyphosate is not the issue, Roundup is.

Why did they not say 'Monsanto has insisted for decades that Round up is safe' rather than what they actually say;

'Monsanto has insisted for decades that glyphosate is safe'.

This play on words suggests they are indeed on the back foot trying to reassure investors but from what Brent Wisner says based on The Parry Report (which Monsanto paid for , did not like it, then buried) that is a Fabrication or Garbage as they say in the USA.

This point is dealt by Parry (The Parry Report) which was a response to Lioi-etal 1998a/1998b is unfathomable and suggests Bayer are digging themselves a terribly big hole.

Brent Wisner discusses this here @1hr.7mins

[supersonico] 17/8/2018 09:22

In other news..Looks like some one now 'owns' Cedroz.. Job not advertised now.

Application Development & Technical Service Manager, Crop Protection
Kingsport, TN, US

[lr2] 17/8/2018 00:45

A weed-killing chemical linked to cancer has been found in dozens of popular breakfast cereals and snack bars, including products marketed to children.

Tests found glyphosate, the active ingredient in the herbicide Roundup, in all but two of 45 oat-based foods sampled by the Environmental Working Group (EWG), an American public health organisation.

Full story in link below.

[supersonico] 17/8/2018 00:37

Comprehensive Interview with Brent Wisner.
Bayer as I said earlier have made a huge error, firstly buying Monsanto and then Appealing the verdict.
Their Share Price is going to seriously suffer as Institutions wake up and fully comprehend the car crash they have just Bought.

Baum Hedlund Law attorney Brent Wisner and Robert F Kennedy Jr discuss the key evidence presented at Dewayne Lee Johnson's Roundup cancer trial (starts @ 41 minutes)

[supersonico] 16/8/2018 16:18

The Monsanto Papers: Poisoning the scientific well.



Monsanto flooded scientific journals with ghostwritten articles and interfered in the scientific process in order to defend its glyphosate herbicides
The paper below is a useful peer-reviewed source detailing Monsanto's deceptive activities aimed at defending glyphosate herbicide, as revealed in the company's internal documents force-disclosed in US cancer litigation and obtained by US Right to Know in freedom of information requests.

Monsanto's activities involve the ghostwriting of scientific articles, secretly sponsoring the pro-GMO website Academics Review, and collusion with the journal editor A. Wallace Hayes to obtain the retraction of the Seralini long-term study on the health impacts of a GM maize and the associated glyphosate-based herbicide.
The paper reminds us that Hayes had a history of defending dangerous products due to his experience as a tobacco company employee: "In one of the earliest ghostwriting documents released from tobacco litigation, A. Wallace Hayes who worked for the R. J. Reynolds Tobacco Company in the 1980s, is the author of a memorandum that details a proposal for a ghost writing program that would publish studies from toxicological investigations. The memorandum shows how ghostwritten articles would be reviewed by a panel at Reynolds prior to submission in Cancer Research or The Journal of the National Cancer Institute. Tobacco companies such as R. J. Reynolds are credited with writing the playbook for spinning science subsequently adopted by pharmaceutical companies and the agrochemical industry."
The paper concludes, "Whether glyphosate or glyphosate-based formulations such as Roundup are safe is a matter of objective scientific evaluation. Monsanto, however, has poisoned the well by flooding the scientific journals with ghostwritten articles and interfering in the scientific process at multiple levels. This has enormously complicated the task of discovering the truth. If the company had confidence in the safety of its products, there would be no need for such behavior, but it is obvious that there are problems that Monsanto needs to conceal."
---
The Monsanto Papers: Poisoning the scientific well
McHenry, L. B. (2018). International Journal of Risk & Safety in Medicine, (Preprint), 1-13.



Abstract:

OBJECTIVE: Examination of de-classified Monsanto documents from litigation in order to expose the impact of the company’s efforts to influence the reporting of scientific studies related to the safety of the herbicide, glyphosate.
METHODS: A set of 141 recently de-classified documents, made public during the course of pending toxic tort litigation, In Re Roundup Products Liability Litigation were examined.

RESULTS: The documents reveal Monsanto-sponsored ghostwriting of articles published in toxicology journals and the lay media, interference in the peer review process, behind-the-scenes influence on retraction and the creation of a so-called academic website as a front for the defense of Monsanto products.

CONCLUSION: The use of third-party academics in the corporate defense of glyhphosate reveals that this practice extends beyond the corruption of medicine and persists in spite of efforts to enforce transparency in industry manipulation.

[weyweyumfozo] 16/8/2018 15:31

Yeah,

a tad depressing of late, but only just over four months 'til the end of 2018, which will be 6 months after the AGM. Surely there will be at least one bit of share price enhancing news by then.

[supersonico] 16/8/2018 15:21

Based on what we've seen so far my bet is with the Verdict being upheld.

We shall see.

Hopefully we'll have some 'short order' news before that.

[weyweyumfozo] 16/8/2018 15:12

Dunno,

just saying, don't count on the verdict being the same after appeal.

[supersonico] 16/8/2018 14:54

weyweyumfozo

'Bayer believes that the jury’s decision is at odds with the weight of scientific evidence'

So why all the deception, disinformation, oppression, ghost writing, discrediting of scientist and Pulitzer winning journalists, malice, manipulation, silencing of decent, lying etc?

'What we found was that their business model was involved with manipulating science,” Krimsky said. “As soon as someone writes a paper that opposed their work then they would contract with a scientist to write another paper that shows they are correct.”

Sheldon Krimsky, a Lenore Stern Professor of Humanities & Social Sciences at Tufts University, worked with journalist Carey Gillam to review the court-released discovery documents from the case and found evidence to suggest corporate malfeasance. Their research was published in The Journal of Public Health Policy.



The list goes on and will be amplified.

[weyweyumfozo] 16/8/2018 14:42

One would have thought that a company like Bayer knew what they were getting into with regard to potential damages claims against Roundup/Monsanto when they bought Monsato. They seem confident that the appeal will reverse the verdict.

"As regards the glyphosate verdict in California on August 10, 2018, Bayer believes that the jury’s decision is at odds with the weight of scientific evidence, decades of real world experience and the conclusions of regulators around the world that all confirm glyphosate is safe and does not cause non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. The National Institutes of Health (NIH) recently reaffirmed glyphosate does not cause cancer. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA), the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) and other regulators around the world have also concluded that glyphosate can be used safely.

The jury’s verdict is just the first step in this case, and it remains subject to post-trial motions in the trial court and to an appeal, as announced by Monsanto. As this case proceeds, Bayer believes courts ultimately will find that Monsanto and glyphosate were not responsible for Mr. Johnson’s illness.'


I wouldn't be surprised to see applications of Roundup limited by law to once a year as alternatives are developed.

[dplewis1] 16/8/2018 14:20

Being new here I'm still trying to work out if this is another AIM 'jam tomorrow' money pit. I will stick it out for at least a few months though as there is going to be a big backlash against this glyphosate stuff. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-16/weed-killing-carcinogen-glyphosate-found-childrens-foods

[supersonico] 16/8/2018 13:38

1)Bayer misjudged the Monsanto decision.

2)Bayer appeal is Misjudged and will likely expose Monsanto's culture of Malice, oppression and Fraud further. It is a missed PR opportunity and considering Bayer have stated they wish to be more transparent, appears to directly contradict their own Narrative

3)The costs of settling now will probably be less than the years of reputation damage, settlements and share price destruction that will follow as they are dragged though the courts. There will be more cancer claims on the horizon, as in parallel glyphosate-based herbicides loose both effectiveness thru resistance and consumer confidence is eroded.

4)The science is not on Monsanto's side so Bayer will loose control of the Narrative as well as reputation. Remember that in the 'Leap by Bayer' videos they are talking about Risk and need the regulators and public to have faith in their judgement. This is not the way to achieve that end.
………………………..



'Due to the aforementioned requirements imposed by the U.S. Department of Justice, Bayer did not have access to detailed internal information at Monsanto. Under these conditions, Bayer was not permitted to influence matters relating to Monsanto’s business, and its ability to actively comment on them in detail was extremely limited. Today, however, Bayer also gains the ability to become actively involved in defense efforts in the glyphosate trials and any other legal disputes, such as potential claims for damages in connection with the product Dicamba'.
………………..

Bayer Financed Monsanto Deal With Debt To Avoid Shareholder Vote, Analysts Say

[supersonico] 16/8/2018 13:13

Investing,

Obviously my Agro chemistry knowledge is Zero so it's more a game of word association and guesses as usual.