Eckoh Share Discussion Threads

[tnt99] 24/4/2023 20:08

Director buying must be a takeover target!!!

[trcml] 21/4/2023 15:33

NETW just receved serious expression of interest.

[nickelmer] 20/4/2023 07:42

Finally, a news release, but not a single word about sales or profits, just more hype about a new service that might be a winner, I guess at least it is some form of news but for god's sake management, investors are interested in real contract wins, cost savings and profits progress, not yet more hype about the potential for new services.

[nickelmer] 20/4/2023 06:03

Big volume suggests a large investor/institutional seller, as per my previous comments, the management need to wake up, not regularly updating investors leaves them no choice but to sell up and move on due to a lack of information on the company's prospects, no one is going to invest blindly in a business that treats shareholders so badly. Larger investors appear to be thinking the same and rightly so.

[wjccghcc] 19/4/2023 18:10

Thanks SG. Here's hoping it gets thrown out at that one then.

[value viper] 19/4/2023 17:51

Big end of day prints Seller cleared maybe

[simon gordon] 19/4/2023 17:47

W,

Here it is:

ORDER granting 56 Joint Motion to Extend Claim Construction Scheduling Order Deadline. Opening Claim Construction Brief due by 5/4/2023.
Responsive Claim Construction Brief due by 5/18/2023.
Reply Claim Construction Brief due by 5/25/2023.
Surreply Claim Construction Brief due by 6/1/2023.

If you subscribe to this site you get all the court info:



They've hired the Wombles to defend them!

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Carter/Ledyard - 2018:

In the U.S. approximately 4,057 patent infringement suits were filed in 2017. Roughly 90% of patent suits filed each year are abandoned or settled. Of the 300 or so remaining, two thirds never go to trial and are adjudicated on summary judgment, meaning that a Judge decides the outcome of the case before there is a trial.

The decision by the Court on the meaning of a claim term can end the litigation long before any jury trial. For example, the Court could decide on a broad definition that encompasses prior art references never considered by the Patent Examiner. Counsel for the alleged infringer then moves for summary judgment, and the Court proceeds to find the patent invalid based on its own claim construction. Alternatively, the Court could decide on a narrow claim construction which results in a claim so narrow that it no longer covers the infringing product.

[simon gordon] 19/4/2023 17:38

W,

There is another hearing coming up next month where it could be kicked out of court. There's a new judge, so not sure if that complicates the hearing. Think there will be a ruling in early June. Be perfect if Sycurio loses both in June.

[wjccghcc] 19/4/2023 17:20

Agreed.

Unfortunately the US court case isn't until late 2024 though.

[simon gordon] 19/4/2023 17:00

Hi W,

Yes, ECK are a more mature company with stronger cashflow.

It does look like ECK is going for more the security route and PCIP with payments.

From my limited reading of the market the payments side looks more dynamic with faster growth.

From what PCIP are saying it looks like they are now pushing for large enterprise customers and make mention of four of them in recent market comments. It's going to be interesting to see what they can pull in for H2. Will they go over £4m ACV for the first time?

Hopefully, the patent dispute will resolve with the upcoming American and UK court cases in May and June.

Like you say, it is interesting to watch both of them compete, let's hope they both do well. Though I'm favouring PCIP just because I think they are smarter and take bigger risks. Though that leads to more danger, eg SVB and the patent dispute.

[wjccghcc] 19/4/2023 16:50

Well rightly or wrongly, I've been buying back at 31p. I hold both ECK and PCIP and not sure I agree with you Simon regarding superiority of one over the other. They both also seem to be expanding in different directions.

PCIP have a narrower product set and are focussed on the SME market through their channel partners. They are developing new products to make payments easier/cheaper for their client base.

ECK have a broader product set, sell less through channel partners, and are focussed more on the larger enterprise market. They are developing new products to make them more secure in their customer interactions.

PCIP ARR grew 8% in H1. ECK growth in the US ARR was 16% but the flat mature UK side reduced that to 10% for the company. ECK has much better cashflow, owns the freehold of its head office and doesn't have the downside of the patent dispute. PCIP is currently more nimble so will probably grow faster as a whole.

It will be interesting to see which path is the more successful.

[simon gordon] 19/4/2023 16:48

Nick,

One point to remember is that the migration to the cloud is ongoing and as more corporates migrate they will need a cloud PCI DSS solution and if it also has payment options all the better.

Here's an example of a government tender for Call Masking & IVR and Open Banking which PCIP can offer. The channel partners will bid for the whole contract and outsource the Call Masking & IVR and Open Banking:

Bidstats - 9/3/23:

The Contracting Authorities, along with approximately 20 other councils of varying sizes, are looking to review their Financial Management & Payment Systems.

Specifically, the following areas are of interest:

-Income Management Systems

-Banking Services Merchant Services

-Call Masking & IVR systems for compliant Moto payments

-Open Banking Payments



-----

It looks like there is still plenty of growth in the sector.

[simon gordon] 19/4/2023 16:35

Nick,

PCIP has been hit by the patent issue.

Growth continues to be strong. They are just hitting break even and will move into profit next year. They've moved from £2m in turnover in 2018 to £20m in 2024 which is just about in the bank. Once they start moving to over £18m per anum it drops rapidly to the bottom line. Right now the gross margin is 87%.

The CEO had this to say at the recent IMC call:

"We are generating more pipeline than we ever have before and that’s key."

-James Barham, 16/3/23.

They are now morphing from card security to a payments company for call centres.

Only time will tell if they can get up to £30m+ in turnover, if they do then the share will be higher than it is now.

The TAM for PCI DSS is £300m based on 10 million agents globally. Next year they will have 6.5% of the market and their sales push is only gathering steam as they onboard more channel partners. They are displacing the competition and the new payments products are helping in that act.

[nickelmer] 19/4/2023 16:16

You may well be right Simon, I follow pcip but am not a shareholder. I fear however that when you look at the share price performance of both companies, they are both fooling themselves as to the size of the market opportunity. Both businesses have an awful lot to prove to win investors confidence, good luck with pcip

[simon gordon] 19/4/2023 16:08

I'm a holder in PCIP. If you look at the strategies of the two companies and how they are attacking the market, it is clear that PCIP are the superior team. Both in product and marketing.

Sycurio are also falling behind and decided to sue PCIP for patent infringement. It's all they've got left in the tank. PCIP are confident Sycurio will lose in a UK court this June.

A new management team will not solve ECK's market position, they are too far behind the curve.

PCIP are becoming the market leaders and with their new payments products will strengthen their position and increase the market opportunity.

[nickelmer] 19/4/2023 16:00

I have no idea why the company is so bad at keeping investors informed, if they have a "PR" person they should be fired on the spot. The main reason I sold the majority of my shares some time ago was the woeful lack of information coming out of them. For many years now the directors have been banging on about the "huge opportunity" in the USA, and regulations forcing companies to use their services, yet no material gains in profits seen. I would suggest that unless management gets a move on, new technology will replace what they see as a big opportunity. The management team have been there too long and are blind to their poor performance, I would suggest it is time for a new management team to be put in place sooner rather than later, this year's trading statement and full-year results may be the final nail in the coffin for the current management.

[earwacks] 19/4/2023 15:46

Looks like you were spot on nickel. Glad I bailed the other week. Dropped 25% in the last couple of week on absolutely no news. Can only presume leaky ship.Last year the upate was april 4th and the year before may 5th. Quite why the director bought 125k was it last week? Will have lost all trust from investors as they are incapable of transparency. Frankly I think the management are a bunch of dullards. It sounded good but maybe they are just too feeble for the competition.

[nickelmer] 06/4/2023 08:50

Looking at the chart, after a very long period of going sideways the price broke out of the range to the downside, suggesting more downside to come, unless of course, this proves to be a fake breakout in which case the price would reverse and move higher and above the old range. If this is to happen it would need to do so in the next few weeks (I use weekly charts for the analysis)if it does not do so in a short time, then the only way is further on down. That would suggest directors need to do more than buy £30K worth of shares, the company needs to prove to investors that it is actually doing well and growing profits meaningfully, to date, their miserable silence sums it all up for Eckoh

[nickelmer] 04/4/2023 20:31

I am expecting EPS of 1.3p for this year which would mean a PE of 25 at a share price of 32.5p. in my opinion their true value is being revealed, plus £30 million wasted buying out a competitor, I bet investors who backed the placing at 54p are furious. The truth hurts, Eckoh will need to start producing real growth in EPS for once instead of promising it. Hope I am proved wrong

[septimus quaid] 04/4/2023 19:51

Yes, pretty painful.

What looks like smallish trades into a weak market for ECK shares, dragging the price down.

Last year, ECK issued a trading update on 4 Apr 2022 and provided a full year trading update on 17 May 2022.

So, we may hear something fairly soon, or it could be mid May?

[bollers] 04/4/2023 14:52

Getting on for an 8 year low.