Crystal Amber Share Discussion Threads

[spectoacc] 28/9/2021 16:05

ALM share price performance since CRS first got involved would be interesting, tho probably not too pretty for CRS holders.

[kooba] 28/9/2021 16:00

I would say the progress is that the current nav is now realistic and could well be far better and that ca and others criticism of the cost base being out of kilter with the portfolio size and work needed addressing ...it has been sharply cut ( and could be more) unfortunately the invesco holding and their potential conflict in having shareholding's in underlying companies here has negated what should have been clear case for change of management further addressing costs and a more proactive monetisation policy. Fair to say CA have had a go though!

[spectoacc] 28/9/2021 13:19

Extraordinary one of the execs is called "Bruce Failing" :)

Something has to give with ALM eventually - either way. But claiming progress on it since last report is a real stretch.

[kooba] 28/9/2021 12:30

As i have said on the Allied Minds board the shares trade at a 50% discount to stated hard NAV and they predict VC quantum returns from that with a timetable to Monetisation now 12-18 months .The discount presumably is the market discounting the current managements ability to deliver or deliver in such a timely manner.,,extraordinary that a majority of shareholders backed the management but none seem to want to back that faith in the market!

[kooba] 28/9/2021 12:18

This last line interesting though?Whilst the Fund believes that the current share price of 23 pence fails to reflect the net asset value of around 45 pence, realising the inherent value of the portfolio and return of proceeds to shareholders would be accelerated and enhanced either by the removal of Harry Rein and Bruce Failing and replacement with alternative directors, or a corporate solution. Accordingly, the Fund has commenced discussions with third parties with this objective in mind.

[kooba] 28/9/2021 12:17

Could be argued the portfolio at Allied Minds is progressing as they have cut more dead wood and now have few remaining holding but all of them look like they have a future. To be fair CA is merely a shareholder in AM and has been very vocal in its criticism of the board and the central costs of what is largely now a passive investment fund. CA did on several occasions initiate changes to the leadership but when they tried to oust the last neds standing and have a leaner more proactive leadership they were not backed by other shareholders ( gawd knows why) so we are left with a holding that has good assets now but is led by a couple of guys ( majority) as a hobby who have a laissez-faire attitude. Value hopefully will out but figure little proactive work being done...only so much a shareholder even significant can do in such a situation.

[marmar80] 28/9/2021 10:22

Hsbc must be offloading today

[spectoacc] 28/9/2021 07:24

Still looks like they accept they need to wind up:

"..The Manager's primary focus has been to position the Fund's strategic holdings to appeal to trade or financial buyers. In recent months, the Manager has been able to commence discussions with a number of potential buyers and we will update market participants as and when appropriate"


But not so impressed with:

"Stable portfolio continues to deliver progress, including De la Rue, GI Dynamics, Equals and Allied Minds."


Progress at ALM? Really?

[financialfred] 28/9/2021 06:52

From their monthly net asset value report, up to end of August 2021, Crystal Amber didn't sell any more de la rue shares? www.hl.co.uk/feeds/apps/rns?id=32145216

[marmar80] 17/9/2021 14:41

Again very good update at HUR. They added 22m to their bank account.

[marmar80] 10/9/2021 09:49

Hur reduces debt by 33%. Good news for CA as a main shareholder there.

[marmar80] 31/8/2021 08:15

CA strategy to buy back bonds by Hur can save the company imo. Hur announced today a buy back at 70% value.

[spectoacc] 23/8/2021 07:58

Terry Smith makes a very good argument against performance-related fees - think low total expenses is where it's at. 2.07 OCF on CRS, can't see total costs figure.

[kooba] 23/8/2021 07:52

That's true , just trying to find any fixed end funds where the fee income is strictly performance related..struggling.

[spectoacc] 23/8/2021 06:59

Good point @kooba, tho the LLP appears to have two members & can't see from a quick look what the split is.

An alternative view says the LLP pockets the fees regardless of the co's performance.

[kooba] 22/8/2021 19:07

Lead fund manager biographyRichard Bernstein might have 10,000 shares in his own name but he is a director and member of the Investment manager.For clarity....a member is a shareholder.So Mr Bernstein is a shareholder and I would presume the principal shareholder (as he founded it and seed funded the listed company) in Crystal Amber Asset Management (Guernsey) Ltd , the investment advisor.Crystal Amber Asset Management (Guernsey) is the4th largest shareholder in CRS . Holding 6,954,330 shares representing 8.3% of the issued share capital.That's over £7m holding at current share price and £10m in underlying assets.What's that about skin in the game again ?Bad research leads to bad takes...would seem to me Mr Bernstein is very aligned to maximise shareholder value.Your welcome.

[m_kerr] 22/8/2021 11:24

Edited following clarification!

[nicksego39] 21/8/2021 18:54

." Mr Bernstein's holding in Crystal Amber Fund Limited currently stands at 10,000 ordinary shares"
I was surprised when I found out that I have more skin in the game than Mr Bernstein

[marmar80] 17/8/2021 10:26

Last chance to add HUR before it goes back up imo. August oil production and cash will be higher than in July. Expecting CA to come up with some plan there before November vote here.

[m_kerr] 16/8/2021 18:48

personally i think they should call it a day. it's a positive thing for the stock market that they exist to shake up poorly run companies, but they aren't generating even satisfactory returns for their shareholders, and an investment trust that doesnt produce decent returns will trade at a chunky discount. shareholders can only ever sell at the prevailing share price, not NAV. what's the investment manager's stake in crystal amber compared to the fees they charge it?

[buywell2] 08/8/2021 23:20

IMO Digitized currency seems to be the way things are heading

[the millipede] 08/8/2021 14:02

I think it would be hard to wind up CRS because of the private equity stake. Indeed, one of the reasons for having it in the first place might be to make a full wind up harder to achieve!

Even Woodford could not sell out, and Schroders (who took over the investment trust) still have several private company holdings that are simply unsellable at this time. This is not to say they are bad investments, just that liquidity is a huge problem in the short term. It would not be beneficial, in my view, if CRS were somehow forced to sell down only its listed holdings, which is effectively what Woodford was forced to do.

I can definitely see an argument for selling down De la Rue, although there are also arguments for keeping it. In any case CRS are already selling, and could usefully use the cash to buy back their own shares IMO.

[riskvsreward] 07/8/2021 20:21

It also helps that Eqls and Dlar are moving in the right direction. It reads very well that the June nav per share has increased about 13% (146 p vs 129p) compared to May.

[m_kerr] 07/8/2021 20:12

this trades at a 27% discount despite a non continuation vote. from what saba capital's actions are, in amassing a 25%+ stake and shorting the underlying holdings, it looks like they have no motivation to settle for anything less than a winding up, to lock in that arbitrage between NAV and market cap. if it was wound up today that could mean a 37% increase in your capital, subject to deductions.

[linz22] 07/8/2021 08:36

Or, maybe SABA is also complicit in the recent skulduggerous plot to scuttle the HUR project..?

Just a thought. DYOR, of course.

(But it wouldn't half make sense).