Circle Property Share Discussion Threads

[stemis] 29/6/2006 22:14

Should make interesting reading

[pinhead3] 29/6/2006 21:34

In case anyone didn't know the results will be out either tomorrow or Monday at the very latest.
CRC previously confirmed that they would be out by the end of June so tomorrow looks most likely.

[wassapper] 27/6/2006 17:17

Yes, see you at WTI Hattori

[hattori_hanzo] 27/6/2006 15:23

wassaper - Fair enough. I understand these issues are a difficult dilemma and nothing is ever completely black and white. I'll continue to do my research into the situation.

ps: Yes, I wouldn't buy Halliburton either! ;)

Infact, I feel that company is an extremely dubious investment, far more so than CRC.

NB: I own shares in WTI, so hopefully we can forget about our differences and have a friendly chat on that thread sometime, where I shan't be poking you with a stick about ethics! ;) Exciting times ahead for WTI too (hopefully).



Blessings - Yes, that description of The Forrest Group doesn't make happy reading, though it doesn't tell half the story of their possibly dubious dealings and influence.
Unfortunately (apart from worrying info about the DRC in general) it was CRC's association with The Forrest Group that first alerted me to the fact CRC may not be an ethical investment.

[wassapper] 26/6/2006 21:51

You are still on filter

[blessings] 25/6/2006 23:03

Wass knows the game is up with me and others, his motives for his positive postings on CRC and other less than transparent companies on the aim market are clear for all to see...Anyone with even limited brain cells can surely join the dots regarding DRC and those who are going to benefit, google is a wonderful tool!

Chairman of GECAMINES from 1999-2001, Belgium's George Forrest controls the most diverse private mining portfolio in the DRC. One of his partners in DRC is the OM Group of Cleveland, Ohio.

Forrest's roots in DRC predate 1945, and his companies outlasted the long Mobutu dictatorship and subsequent wars. Forrest also owns Belgium's New LachaussŽe company, a leading manufacturer of cartridge casings, grenades, light weapons and cannon launchers. His George Forest Group also has munitions plants in Kenya and Tanzania.

Forrest's mining interests include copper, cobalt and germanium concessions in Shaba, DRC's southern province, long the site of separatist movements..

Shaba's plight also revolves around factions seeking to maintain or wrest control of resources. Shaba (formerly known as Katanga) is rich in diamonds, cobalt, copper, palladium and germanium. Uranium from Shaba was used in the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[wassapper] 25/6/2006 17:46

Hattori - you have your view I have mine. I believe to abandon the people of the DRC would be to exaggerate and prolong their agony.

Nowhere have you said that CRC were directly implicated in this programme.

You should meet the management of companies working in the DRC as I have. They are paying good wages and are building and refurbishing infrastructure. They are giving people regular paid jobs. That is better than your policy of benign neglect and abandonment.

As an investor you will always be compromised either for moral, ethical or environmental grounds. Best you don't try investing. Show me someone, some company which is whiter than white. We all have to compromise.

Make your own assumptions and have your own opinions about me. I still believe in positive intervention ( and George W's type does not come into that category). I guess you support the US approach?

[hattori_hanzo] 24/6/2006 12:17

Hi blessings.

Most interesting. Given your situation, it's even easier to understand why you've taken a similar stance to me. Thanks to you for the articles you posted on here and, as I said, no offence meant to you in my previous post, I can see now why you'd have genuine ethical concerns.

I don't deny it was a difficult decision to sell the second half of my holding, believing as I do that CRC may do well over time (though there are obviously big, inherent risks too) but, as you say, we all have to live with how we make our money.
Last nights C4 programme merely confirmed what my research had alreadsy told me....but it was still quite shocking to see my concerns portrayed 'in the flesh', so to speak.
It's all to easy to ignore moral and ethical considerations when it comes to investing.

However, as I said, I shall continue to monitor the situation and will try to find out more about exactly how CRC operates (particularly in relation to The Forrest Group, government and the concerns raised in the C4 programme, etc), if I find evidence that CRC are actively trying to improve the lives of their workers and are 'ethical' in their dealings, then I'm prepared to change my mind.

[tonystringy] 23/6/2006 23:50

Good posts Hanzo.

Just looking in to catch up on the latest as I have CRC on my close watchlist and was in fact in here for a short time recently before being stopped out.

I personally am in quite a desperate financial situation at the mo, having lost all my gains in the recent market decline and so am equally desperate to make any profit anywhere......there are some levels I wont stoop to though.

CRC is now off my watchlist.....don't get chance to watch much telly so hadn't seen the C4 program.....thanks for the info.

Good luck Hanzo.....guess we could all use some of that in these times.

[pinhead3] 23/6/2006 20:47

Same to you, all the best in your future profitable trading.

[hattori_hanzo] 23/6/2006 20:45

Well, if you can view that C4 progremme as well as the existing evidence to support their view and feel comfortable (particularly with the Forrest Group involved, which I was always uncomfortable with, given their 'shady rep'!) then we are probably chalk and cheese in our outlook on life.

But I don't wish to judge you on a bb and I thank you for your informative contributions in the past...but I really can't bring myself to wish you good luck with CRC.
But I wish you good luck with your other investments.

[pinhead3] 23/6/2006 20:38

I am fully aware with what is going on in the DRC, I was when I invested & I saw the C4 programme tonight. I don't condone what the forces are doing in the north east of the country with the current government & UN support. After years of civil war the current situation is a dam sight better than it was & the country is in its best position since colonial rule.

We'll have to agree to disagree as to whether CRC is supporting the attrocities or helping to develop the DRC to a better future.

My hope is that the elections bring in a new government that can erradicate the problems in the north east of the country & bring prosperity & peace to the country.

[hattori_hanzo] 23/6/2006 20:23

pinhead3 - I really like and respect your contributions to this board, they are intelligent and informative, but it seems more and more obvious that murder is likely being committed on behalf of the MASSIVE business commodity interests in the DRC (in collusion with a corrupt and greedy government).

Having sold half my holding at 106p, I recently was convinced enough about the realities of the horrors in the DRC to sell my other half at 78p..despite the fact I believed the price would probably move up substantially over time.

...that Channel 4 programme confirmed EVERYTHING I'd come to suspect.

Like I said, investing in CRC is probably taking a profit in blood.

Sorry, pinhead and no offence meant to you, because I really enjoy your posts, but don't con yourself that what I'm saying is probably not the truth. Either stick your head in the sand and enjoy your profits...or do the right thing!

[pinhead3] 23/6/2006 20:16

Hattori_Hanzo with respect unless there is investment in the country to utilise the obvious potential wealth then the country is never going to get out of poverty or develop. Companies such as CRC are required to provide the technical knowledge & more vitally the funding.

Don't under estimate the huge importance of the fact that the elections next month are the first democratic elections in the countrys' history. In order to restore full law and order a strong, democratic government with UN support is essential. A government needs money to pay for infrastructure, education, health service, etc,etc. Without an economy the country has no hope, without external investment the country has no hope.
Just look at what has been achieved in Botswana & Namibia as an example.

I agree that proper ethical law & order needs to be enforced as the countrys' first priority but companies who have the courage to invest in the DRC should be praised not boycotted.

[hattori_hanzo] 23/6/2006 20:11

After doing some research and then seeing that channel 4 expose....Investing in CRC is probably blood money, imho!

End of story. You're either happy with that or you're not.

[pinhead3] 23/6/2006 20:08

Blessings
It is worth noting that the MMK assets are near the Zambian border in the Kantanga province in south east DRC. The article above is primarily concerned with the troubles in the north east of the DRC near the Ugandan border.
The two areas are approximately 800 miles apart.

[pinhead3] 22/6/2006 22:05

Thanks Blessings but I think we all know what the DRC is like. Mind you getting elected in the US is all about who has the most money too.
If the country really gets itself together all the big players will flock to the DRC as it's one of the richest copper areas that hasn't been exploited.
Shell after all operate in Nigeria & that's no picnic!

The political situation is now the biggest risk to the Kinsenda project, fortunately CRC is more than just the one project & more than just the DRC.