Conygar Investment Share Discussion Threads

[davidosh] 06/12/2011 18:04

There is a very good thread started in the Pub by Stemis if any of you would like to add your comments. I say that because it will help shareholders to have complete thoughts in one place which I will then use to challenge the RemCom. TMF is very high on search engines like google so I suspect the directors are already aware of it and reading our thoughts but no harm in that.



Skyship...Even from SW France you can ring the company or email and ask how this bonus was achieved and whether it is justified especially in the current climate.We all need to challenge this and vote against the appropriate resolutions at the AGM which is on the 5th January btw.

[skyship] 06/12/2011 07:52

David - good for you. Would have joined you in the past; but now I'm down in SW France it would be a rather expensive exercise.

Certainly the payout doesn't on the face of it accord with the supposed cap to prevent double counting.

Also, NAV accretions through financial engineering should not form part of the value growth qualifying for bonus. It should only relate to the property portfolio growth.

[davidosh] 05/12/2011 17:55

I really need to understand this profit share scheme...On Monday I am going to request a meeting with the Remcom ie. the two non executives. Anyone interested in joining me ?

Mission commenced but not necessarily completed !

The meeting has been arranged for Thursday 15th December at the company HQ in Wigmore Street at 10.30am. I have three who requested to come already but we can take at least three more if you want to join us. Who would like to come and try to understand this bonus scheme ?

[grahamburn] 03/12/2011 13:34

The rationale, both in the past year and - apparently - going forward, for a massive share buyback programme (17.2% of the amount in circulation in the recent past) seems to have failed, except in terms of supporting the net asset value.

£24M could have been put to much better use so far as existing shareholders are concerned, or even held on account for future opportunities.

The directors seem determind to pursue this policy, possibly to support their own remuneration, rather than put it on hold. Their reasons for this are not clear from the report.

[topvest] 03/12/2011 09:19

I wonder how much support there is for a shareholder vote?

[sleepy] 03/12/2011 00:16

David
Thank you for the very informative post
Sleepy

[sleepy] 02/12/2011 22:48

How has the 2.6 million bonus been calculated?

[topvest] 02/12/2011 21:40

davidosh - I fully agree with you - the profit share is absolutely outrageous when compared with the pathetic dividend and low profits. They might be a clever bunch of directors and time the property cycle well, but they appear to be a greedy bunch of individuals with no real intention of providing good returns to us shareholders until they have binged on as much as possible first. As 2 years ago, they have earned outrageous bonuses for creating very little in the way of shareholder value. Next time they want city support, institutions should stick two fingers up at them. The NEDs here must be totally ineffective, stupid or as greedy as the other two. Given Ware is an active value investor (through Laxey), he deserves a taste of his own medicine and someone trying to break up this company and return us 150p in cash. I suspect most of us want out!

[davidosh] 02/12/2011 13:58

Skyship...As investors we need to improve our investment returns. Step one - understand our investments and control costs and downside. Do the institutions here understand step one ? More importantly change the system or investment will die...just as the Aim market is dying.

[skyship] 02/12/2011 13:45

Shareholders know the remuneration/bonus arrangements. The point is that Board members of all listed companies have excessive remuneration packages; and it is difficult to see how things will change as all fund managers - insurance, pension, unit trust, hedge fund etc etc are ALL overpaid and on the same gravy-train.

Excessive Board compensation is an investment headwind we all have to live with if we wish to trade the stockmarket.

[joe say] 02/12/2011 13:40

agree with your anger re:remuneration but disagree with your approach to selling

make it back somewhere else

[davidosh] 02/12/2011 13:38

Joe Say...to sell is for cowards and I would make a loss on my investment at 40% below NAV. The institutions need to look hard at themselves and the directors even harder IMHO. What are these bonuses for exactly ?

[joe say] 02/12/2011 12:37

Davidosh - your observations are precisel why I bailed out of this months ago.

can only recommend you do the same when the share price permits

[davidosh] 02/12/2011 01:27

The remuneration is not excessive it is totally and utterly shocking !

Can anyone explain to me...

1. Why £2.6m has been paid out in bonuses in a year when the NAV per share is still well below where it was two years ago and would be even lower if the share buybacks had not been done ?

2. What do the bonuses exactly relate to ?

3. Mr Rabl received £75k in salary, fees of £38k paid to his company for some unknown reason and then pockets a £398k bonus but he is very rarely at the company offices. How does that work for shareholders ?

I am sorry but the bonuses here take corporate greed to a whole new level.

Incidentally through the downturn Robert Ware has drawn five million pounds in salary and bonuses over those four years a cool 1.25 million each year on average. The FD who surely has less to do than 95% of FDs in listed companies is not far behind and has averaged 850k over the last three years. Truly staggering especially as the NAV per share has barely moved.

Total board remuneration since 2007 has been 13.4m but the Nav per share has fallen from £1.62 to £1.55 currently. Total dividends 1p.... How does that work for shareholders ?

[skyship] 01/12/2011 14:11

windass - thnx for that - the update makes an interesting read.

Certainly if/when built out the development projects would add significant value. I assume they would sell or partner in JVs; either way one could easily envisage as much as £75m of hidden profits there - another c74p/share to add to the current 155p NAV.

The remuneration is excessive, we all know that. But happy to hold alongside my IFD, MCKS & TEIF.

[windass] 01/12/2011 12:24

GE&CR sees 51% upside

[horndean eagle] 01/12/2011 05:30

MAX may be a greedy bunch but at least they are on your side there. Fees are pretty high at 2% a year and they have a profit share of 20% of gains. The 20% only kicks in after a hurdle is met and taken when cash is returned rather than the disgraceful way it is taken here. A 5 year life after which they liquidate assets and return cash to shareholders. They have at least been actively earning their fees by wheeling and dealing. Something CIC can hardly be accused of.

[topvest] 30/11/2011 20:33

MAX are also a greedy bunch in my opinion. Still remember being had on my Prestbury shares a decade ago!

[horndean eagle] 30/11/2011 12:07

Found it amusing when they said they had never been in a stronger position. I would argue that they were in a much better position prior to the idiotic share issue they undertook at 105p. Glad I left the party a very long time ago. MAX reporting tomorrow. Much better alternative.

[davidosh] 30/11/2011 11:38

topvest....I think the writing was on the wall when they took those £4m in bonus payments a couple of years ago. Which profit share are you looking at this time ?

[topvest] 30/11/2011 08:10

Reasonable results, if not dull!

Profit share to directors is twice the dividend to shareholders - if this is not greedy, I don't know what is!

The Company is being run for the directors and not for us shareholders. I'm not prepared to sell at 60p below fair value though!

[skyship] 26/11/2011 13:49

DUGGANJOE - You first graced us with your presence on 26th August when the share price was 95.25p. Price today? Well would you believe it - 95.25p!

How do you make that a 20% fall? Your mathematics may well match your forecasting skills!

Have decided the best thing to do is to Filter you rather than waste time debating with someone who obviously doesn't know much about property companies; or perhaps the investment game in general.

Job done - bye, bye

[dugganjoe] 26/11/2011 09:30

20% fall since i first said it was overvalued


im right so far