Clerkenwell Ventures Share Discussion Threads

[diamond1] 09/3/2009 09:27

Thanks tiltonboy. I didn't know about the consolidation. Why did it not happen at the same time as the cash return, which by the way I haven't got yet.

[tiltonboy] 09/3/2009 09:12

10:1 consolidation.

Sold mine at 2.75p on Thursday, making a 7.5% return in less than two months. In these markets, I'm happy to do that.

tiltonboy

[diamond1] 09/3/2009 09:00

Wow, what's going on this morning?

[tiltonboy] 19/1/2009 22:01

eburne,

gotcha.

[eburne1960] 19/1/2009 20:08

tilton, I am not assuming the share price will match the NAV either, my figures assume that the shares will trade at the same discount to the residual cash as the discount they are now trading to the current cash, which IS an assumption, but not an unreasonable one. The residual cash would work out as c.4.2p a share, whereas I've assumed an equivalent bid price of 3.14p .

[tiltonboy] 19/1/2009 19:21

eburne,

The point gilston is making is that he believes the share price will not match the residual NAV, and I think he will be proved to be right. I have bought mine as a (virtually) free call option on the future.

tiltonboy

[eburne1960] 19/1/2009 18:56

You don't seem to quite get my point. What I was pointing out was that you would have got around 15% more than you did get if you had waited 2 months. Here are the calculations:

You got : 31.35p

In 2 months you would have received: 32.1p.
There will be c. £3.5m cash left; now I know this depends on what the price is at the time, but if you sell in 2 months' time at around the same price as you got for your holding (as the shares will have had a 1 for 10 consolidation), that equates to around 3.14p at today's price.
32.1 + 3.14 = 35.24p
35.24p - 31.35p/31.35p = approx 12.5%.
OK I know that's not 15%, but the original calculation was in my head! The point still remains that 12.5% more than you got in 2 months is not a bad return, especially the way the market is at the moment. And having money tied up in this means I can resist the temptation to buy something like RBS and lose 67% in one day!

[gilston] 19/1/2009 17:31

Your calculation seems to value the package at around 37p. when the market currently values it at 33p. What you are getting in 2 months is only 32.1p cash & the balance in shares. So you seem to value those shares at 4.9p [ before consolidation] which to my mind, with little or no dividend, is a premium on this management team`s ability to perform & to raise fresh finance without dilution in a reasonably short space of time.

I think that judgment is where we differ.But that is what makes a market!

I have accepted a 5.8% discount [the bid/offer spread]on the current market price to realise cash, which I have now just received & will invest elsewhere. The spread today is 10% with a reduction in the bid price.

[eburne1960] 15/1/2009 19:59

Bought in @ 30p, but my point was you sold @c.31p which was a 15% discount to what you could have got in 2 months time. In my book that's not a bad return, particularly in these markets! If the consolidated shares start trading at a big discount to the c.3.5p cash that's left I will certainly reinvest the money I'm getting back.

[gilston] 15/1/2009 17:00

So you must view the shares at 33p. & a 15% discount [your figure] as cheap. Are you are still buying? Good luck to you!

[eburne1960] 13/1/2009 18:44

Yes, presumably you would have been happier that the directors bought the first business that came along and watched the share price fall 40 or 50 per cent, some people are never satisfied.....
still all the more returns for those of us who better understand shares!

[gilston] 13/1/2009 17:25

I sold at 31.35p. Why wait 2 months for another 0.75p per share? I will have cash in 10 days` time.

The stub equity of around 3p. per share will be locked in & discounted by the market until a decent deal is done. To do that, the company will have to raise fresh finance, if it can. It was floated on AIM 4 years ago & raised £25m. over 16 months ago. In all that time it could not make a worthwhile acquisition.

That`s long enough for me in the present market conditions!


ps. I am assuming this is all a done deal with the institutional s/holders & will go through at the egm. Have you looked at the remuneration package being extracted by the directors this year?

[ostra] 13/1/2009 13:52

Buy at 32.1 and you get all you cash back on March 3 - plus essentially a free bet at around 4p per share that the management won't fritter away the remaining £3m over the following 12 months. Best case scenario is they snap up a distressed asset at rock bottom prices just as the markets turn. Worst case is they return the remaining cash to shareholders after one year.
Stefan Borson, one of the directors, will step down thus reducing expenditure. The cash is held with HSBC and Barclays so interest over the next year will be minimal but least it is safe.

[spooky] 13/1/2009 11:25

Yes i know,i also haven't included dealing costs, if you want me to do everything you will need to pay me :-o)

[tiltonboy] 13/1/2009 11:18

spooky,

You forgot the stamp duty!!!

tiltonboy

[spooky] 13/1/2009 11:09

If tiltonboy is buying at 32.25p he is probably paying 0.15p for 3.5p cash left with the company,that's the biggest discount i have ever seen for an unencumbered cash shell.Unfortunately at 32.5p you only get a discount of just under 90%.

[tiltonboy] 13/1/2009 10:53

CURRY,

They are only handing back £26.8m, which is 32.1p.

In theory there should be 10% in it, buying at 32p, depends what price they are after the repayment, and what sort of deal they may be able to do thereafter.

tiltonboy

[currypasty] 13/1/2009 10:46

"For every Ordinary Share held at the Record Date a Shareholder will receive 32.1 pence in cash. As detailed in the Annual Report as at 30 September 2008, the Company had net assets of £29.8 million and cash of £29.9 million. "



so, buying at 33p, what total return are you expecting ?

[spooky] 13/1/2009 10:09

I'm fairly stunned people aren't lining up to buy them at 33p,at 32.25 it's more or less equivalent to giving money away.I've already got 675,000 so there is a limit,but at that price i might pick up a few more.

[tiltonboy] 13/1/2009 08:45

spooky,

We were offered the stock at 33p, and I went back and bid 32.25p, and got them. I'm trying to buy more.

tiltonboy

[spooky] 13/1/2009 07:48

I saw the offer,i was a little surprised as i had just bought 50 at 32.50.I thought about it for five minutes and went back to buy them but the offer had gone,now i know why,i had to settle for another 31,250 at 32.50,i'll send you the bill for the difference :-o)

[tiltonboy] 12/1/2009 22:14

spooky,

I bought 100k at 32.25p

tiltonboy

[spooky] 12/1/2009 21:36

tiltonboy - I thought i did :-o)

[eburne1960] 12/1/2009 20:27

Can't see the point in selling them, you're missing out on c.15% return over 2 months surely?

[tiltonboy] 12/1/2009 19:49

Gilston,

I probably bought them off you.

tiltonboy