Cloudified Share Discussion Threads

[daddy warbucks] 13/7/2016 07:47

The ISA seems the safest way and no tax to pay.However using the example I gave yesterday, say you invested your 50,000 shares into a shares ISA at today's prices and come September an OOC settlement was reached at £3 a share.The company (Churchill) was wound down and your shares exchanged for the £3 each, giving you £150k cash.The questions I have areCan you take your money out of an ISA straight away or does an ISA have to last for a minimum period, say a full tax year?If it cannot be taken out before a year, can the cash be held as cash in a share ISA until it can be withdrawn.If it cannot be held as cash, you will then be forced to buy other shares which could increase/ decrease in value. Would people buy Ftse 100 shares for dividends or have a mix of shares in both Ftse companies and aim?

[pembury] 13/7/2016 07:33

use your isa mate just in case common sense prevails

[carcosa] 13/7/2016 07:27

DW. I agree with your assertion if trading on margin. So don't trade on margin that way you can keep your car/home/other savings. i.e. deposit, say, £15k with the spread betting company and invest £15000/23 = £650/point maximum.

[daddy warbucks] 13/7/2016 06:59

Carcosa,Too dangerous for me. I would end up no car, no home, no savings.

[carcosa] 13/7/2016 06:50

DW. Have you considered not owning shares but using spread betting instead? All gains are free from UK CGT; assuming you intend to sell.

[who r u who r u] 13/7/2016 04:25

suppose you put some of the 60k into your bank account to spend,would you still incur any tax liablity?
I thought the whole point of share investments was to make some money and any gains (over the cgt freshhold) in a Trading ISA account is tax free .If you keep any gains in the isa for the purpose of not incurring future CGT then when will you ever spend it!

As daft as it sounds, surely you should be able to spend your gains.

[andy] 13/7/2016 01:09

cool,

If your car is stolen, the insurance pays you the guide price, not the purchase price to replace it.

They are two very different prices

[neo26] 12/7/2016 23:32

warbuck

If you invest £15k in a stock isa and the price increases 4 fold, that £60k and all of it can stay in isa its tax free.

Thats the way i see it.

[cool hand kev] 12/7/2016 23:24

Similar to the guide value of your car when it was stolen and not it's depreciated value at the time of settlement? Other wise they could hold out until it was worthless.

[daddy warbucks] 12/7/2016 20:54

I agree, but if you don't have options if it does come off, you may find yourself scrambling around and possibly making the wrong decisions.

[neo26] 12/7/2016 20:24

You counting chickens before they hatch, if these were a certainty we will not be lingering at these prices.I'm a gambling man, I like the odds.

[daddy warbucks] 12/7/2016 20:19

Ran out of visible room on the iPad and the dreaded predictive text took over on the last paragraph which should read....However I am not sure if a special dividend attracts a tax and if the tax is based on a set amount or on your taxable income band. i.e. would it be up to 45% if you are on the highest bracket. I would be grateful if anyone has the answer please.

[stephen1946] 12/7/2016 20:19

The problem with repossessing anything illegally is if the former owner sues you for the value of the product stolen, they claim the value that is perceived at the time of repossession.

In this case, when the claim was accepted by icsid the price of coal was xyz and ROI accepted that claim. The fact that the price of coal has since fallen is irrelevant.

[daddy warbucks] 12/7/2016 20:14

Many thanks for the replies.Neo, I think the ISA is the best route if you can get them in before an offer is made. My example of 50,000 shares at today's average prices of say 23p would be valued at £11,500 so all could go in at the moment.If say there is a whiff of a settlement I think the shares could rocket and you can only put £15,400 (I think) worth of shares into your ISA, so I doubt you would get them all in.I have to confess I have never held an ISA as I was never sure how long you had to keep them before you could get your hands back on the cash and with the shares ISA, I know you can buy and sell within the ISA wrapper, but how do you get the money out and is there a time limit before you can exit or a maximum amount you can take out at any one time.?This is one of the reasons I posed the original question. If you sell your shares on the market before the 'special' dividend, you could be subject to CGT and get less than the £3 that I used in my example.However I am not sure if a special dividend attracts a tax and if the t I s based on a set amount or on your taxable income band. I'd would it be up to 45% if you are on the highest bracket. I would be grateful if anyone has the answer please.

[andy] 12/7/2016 20:09

pat,

Exactly!

I have said this for ages, in fact at today's prices, I doubt the mine would be economic.

Any settlement would have to take that into account IMO.

[oggyrocks] 12/7/2016 19:34

Had some shares in a company that got taken over.I did sell some in market before it was finalised to free up cash and held some till end. (Always a risk it could collapse). Monies were paid into my account after a few weeks.If same happens to chl will look to do the same. Hold just over 60,000 shares here.

[oggyrocks] 12/7/2016 19:30

£3 would suit. Have some isa and some in trading account.

[fidra] 12/7/2016 19:28

You dont sell them to the company .if you have not already sold in the market your share account will receive the money and your shares cancelled.If you have the certificates the cheque will be sent to that address as per the certificate.

I had shares in (I think) western mining a canadian coal co
which was taken over by a listed US co. .Prior to the takeover the discount was about 15% to the offer price on the live market.it narrowed after the takeover went ahead.

I sold the shares in the market.I could have received shares I think in the offer company.They were about $120 per share went to $150 and are now either bust or about 18c!

So to sum up yes the market will buy them at a discount most likely.

[neo26] 12/7/2016 19:05

WarbucksWon't the isa route be the best way?

[stephen1946] 12/7/2016 17:53

Debbie, These are aim shares, depends how long you have held them.

DQ has said offer money will be paid out to shareholders with nothing held in reserve, the problem there is that there will be a date at which shareholders will be given as the last date to sell by, at that point residue will probably go to a charity.

[neo26] 12/7/2016 17:28

Well I have some buy orders on 20p.. :))

[daddy warbucks] 12/7/2016 17:03

Thinking ahead, A question for financial experts please.Take this as an example:- if we are offered £3.00 a share and I was lucky enough to have 50,0000 shares, then that in straight cash terms comes to £150,000.What is the best way to maximise the best return on that 50,000 shares?If I had been wise before the offer I believe the best way to retain the maximum value would be to have those shares in a share ISA, then if I sold at that price, I would retain 100% of the proceeds. But what if I just held them in my ordinary shares account?Would it be better to cash them in and pay capital gains tax or to wait for the special dividend and pay tax on that?Just to complicate it further. If the offer amounted to £3.00 a share, would the mm's then offer me £3.00if I sold them. I don't think so as they want to make a profit. So what price do you think ordinary shareholders could expect from the mm's?

[patviera] 12/7/2016 14:21

Strange as surely out revenues would've decreased over the years!!?

[debbiegee] 12/7/2016 14:13

yes that is the best gage Tburns !

They have plenty of orders to buy at 22..75 but they did not have many orders to sell at 23 or 23.25 as they jumped after just a few.

[stephen1946] 12/7/2016 14:03

The price is worked out from the price of the product at the time of the crime.