Cleantech Lithium Share Discussion Threads

[realale] 09/4/2002 00:23

A clearer picture is emerging re the price movements.

There is a massive difference between the 2mm's quotes
on this stock with WINS at 7.50-9p and CSCS 6.25-7.75p
but it looks as if CSCS has a seller on his/her books
and will happily sell stock at around 7.5p knowing they
can buy it back around the 6p mark, you'll notice the 200k
sell a short while ago at 6p when WINS were a penny higher
on the bid so that deals has been done with CSCS imo.
Question is how much stock has the seller got, you'll know
when cleared as the quote should rise sharply to match WINS
current quote or a lot closer to it.

[minuteman] 08/4/2002 20:11

4D

Hi Dave:
some info on the chairman, Warren Tayler you needed

Warren, for many years Chief Executive of Air Call Telecommunications, has always been involved in high tech service industries. In 1991 he founded The Color Company specialising in digital print services and bought the first retail location in Chelsea Harbour.
The company has now grown to 25 branches and is the largest independent chain of digital print bureaux in the United Kingdom. Running The Color Company and understanding how the digital print market is developing gave Warren the idea and expertise to found ControlP plc.

To the board: 4D is a very knowledgable investor, with some fantastic calls to his name! He would be a very welcome on the board, for which I'm sure will be invested at some point in the future providing his criteria are met.

Good luck

[njp] 08/4/2002 20:01

Agree with you Tony. Great to see real discussion about the pros and cons going on. This is what BBs should be about! Have put a small marker down for 10k shares just in case things take off. Risky, but plenty of upside if things go well.

[tony14] 08/4/2002 19:35

What a refreshing change to see an opposing point of view acknowledged and treated with respect. Clear and concise post 4d highlighting the possible downside to this stock. Having said that I feel comfortable holding a relatively small amount of CTL at these levels. Looking for more future direction and guidance from the Co. before commiting fresh funds. I gather these were tipped over the weekend in RHPS hence the increased retail activity today. As ever good luck to all.

[kermat] 08/4/2002 19:15

4d,

Nice to hear the other side of the story to balance things out!

I agree that the company has been very poor at giving information in the past and this alone is a good reason for caution. The Documedia purchase may also burn cash fast if they have significantly underestimated the time it will take to turnaround.

However I believe we were told only a couple of months ago that the co was in neutral cash flow and the purchase of Documedia only cost 400k assuming they can sell+lease back the properties (should not be a problem in the current climate). Assuming ths is true, I would expect them to still have around 2.5m in cash at the present time (about 70-80% of their market cap).

The statement today seems to indicate that things are going well at Documedia

"Commenting on the appointment, Chairman, Warren Tayler said, 'Since the
acquisition of Documedia, Mark has had full responsibility for the management
and the turn around of the business. We are very pleased with the progress made
to date and this appointment shows our confidence in Mark and his team.'"

As far as the turnover increase and previous cash burn gos, this is a new company and as is usually the case, there are significant costs that must be absorbed in the first year or two. Looking at their current position, these costs seem to have been managed fairly well. This and the fact that the mgt seem to have made a wise decision into switching into software when it became apparent that the dot com boom was over gives me some degree of confidence in their abilities and knowlege of their business area.

You may well be wise to wait until resulsts, particularly in the current climate of nasty surprises. Hopefully they will show a fast growing, well run and financed company and if this is the case, I look forward to welcoming you aboard.

Thanks again for the info you have posted above.

[minuteman] 08/4/2002 18:14

You'll also note that Archie Norman is a non-executive director. And again...positive noises from the top re: appointment. "we are pleased with progress made to date!" Suggests things going in the righht direction to me !

I know your stance Dave and appreciate your pearls of wisdom. You'll note beta testing on the software is done and that they are looking forward to announcing further "familiar names" as customers, so maybe there has been no revenues due to this testing being uncomplete.

The 10 million turnover up to feb 2002, is wrong. The company said it should make 10million turnover to feb 2003, making (in the chairmans words, about a million profit) The year ending 2002 is due to be a break even year.

I totally agree with you that the information is poor that is put out by them, that said, when you contact them direct, they are very helpful. Why don't you drop them a line to ease your mind with regards to printbynet?

What I am very interested in with this company is that they have made these purchases (documedia & colourflow) in order to stop cash burn, I guess giving them their bread and butter, whilst now having the financial constraints lifted to be able to pursue the software side of things, which will be much more profitable. I like their approach of moving their eggs into various baskets in order to protect their cash.

I think that you are estimating a little low on the cash in hand and a figure of £3 mill is more likely.

I know it all sounds too good to be true, but IF they do produce the results they are talking about then this is an easy 7 bagger...and I haven't talked about that kind of profit since those glorious days a couple of years ago.:-)))

I think at this price of 7.7 p to buy there is little downside with the cash balance but there is potential for tremendous upside. I also wouldn't recommend anyone whacking loads of cash in.. I have just under ten grands worth. But then again, I see no point in watching it go to 20p before investing,. This game is all a gamble to some extent, but the risk reward with this is in my favour I think.

Hope you get on board if you like the results!

Regards
M

[realale] 08/4/2002 17:52

Maybe this news is what they need 4d for strengthening
the board.

Following the acquisition of Documedia Solutions Ltd in November 2001, ControlP
Plc has appointed Mark O'Connor as an Executive Director to its Board as of 28
March 2002.

Mr O'Connor, 37, joined Documedia in 2000 following a corporate career with
Rentokil-Initial Plc, Bristol & West Building Society and Thorn EMI. At
Rentokil-Initial he held senior Divisional profit-centre and e-commerce roles
spanning a 7-year career with the Top 100 Group. He is currently

Managing Director of Documedia Solutions Ltd.

Commenting on the appointment, Chairman, Warren Tayler said, "Since the
acquisition of Documedia, Mark has had full responsibility for the management
and the turn around of the business. We are very pleased with the progress made
to date and this appointment shows our confidence in Mark and his team."

[realale] 08/4/2002 17:40

Cheers 4d for that unbiased view.

Minuteman, there seems to be over 300k bought after
the delayed sell yet no further rise in the price.
Looking at it again you cannot rule out some of those
being sells with WINS as they were quoting 7.5-9p and
so it's possible to improve on their price maybe but
if not then I do believe there's a seller still.

[4d] 08/4/2002 17:17

My cautious opinion posted elsewhere when you first mentioned them.......

I've had a quick look, and a few things worry me slightly.

Briefly..

Price - 10.3p
Shares in issue - 40.11M
Market Cap - £4.1M

Looking at what is actually there - as reported for the 6 months to 31st Aug 2001 - then we have...

1. Turnover of £502,000. Equivalent to around £1M p.a. Hence a price to turover ratio around 4.

2. Turnover growth?? - A quick calculation will show that in the 6 month period ended Feb 2001 turover must have been around £450,000. Hence turnover appears to be have grown by just £50,000 from the 6 months ended Feb 2001 to the 6 months ended Aug 2001. Hardly breathtaking at all considering the valuation, and the companies young nature.

3. Admin expenses of over £1M on runover of £0.5M. Operating loss in the 6 months almost £0.9M - i.e. £1.8M p.a.

4. Tangible assets of of £153,000 - less than 4% of market cap.

5. Cash of £4.6M as of 31 Aug 2001 - The only real attraction. However this is down from £8.7M raised in May 2000, and £6.7M as of 31 Aug 2000. Almost all seems to have been blown on operating activities. Currently operating activities burning almost £1M every 6 months.

In November they paid £1.65M cash for Documedia. Hence allowing for just a £0.85M cash outflow for the 6 months to Mar, the cash position could well be down to around £2M by he end of March. Interest receivable - currently their main source of funds - is therefore clearly going to be much lower.

So based on the current accounts - i think the shares look highly valued, with just the cash pile - which is eroding fast - supporting the valuation.

Some of the things that concern me..

1. Printbynet.com >>

In July 2000 they bought 80% of Printbynet for £100,000, stating they would invest up to £1M in it over the next 2 years.

In Dec 2000 they update shareholders on Printbynet... "As expected, this deal is already generating economies of scale and allows joint development of specialist software. Volume through the site has exceeded our expectations and we are seeing significant month on month increases in orders"

Then - Out of the blue in Oct 2001 they announce the sale of Printbynet, to 'A Group of print professionals.' And thats about all we're told. So who Exactly bought this operation, and for how much?? And why were we not told these points??

Looking at the interims to Aug 2001 the company lists £365,000 of it's £500,000 turover as 'discontinued' along with £140,000 of the group operating loss. This isn't explained anywhere - the only thing we can assume is that these are the figures for Printbynet.

So was Printbynet really responsible for 73% of turnover in the period (although only 16% of the operating loss) ?? If so why sell?? And why give shareholders no info on the sale??

2. Documedia purchase >>

So they spent £1.65M on Documedia - But give very little information about the company other than that it was in receivership. Presumably they were in dire trouble to go in to receivership - how much do the company estimate it will will cost to turn things around?

3. Sudden director resignations >>

17th July 2000 - Chief Executive Jim Kachenmeister leaves the company by 'mutual and amicable' consent.

23rd July 2001 - Stephen Lovatt leaves with 'immediate effect.'

So still i see no reason to buy.

The main attraction therefore - and what seems to have attracted you - is the talk by the company that they will achieve £10M turnover in the year ended Feb 2002 and be trading profitability from the start of this year, i.e NOW.

Firstly such a statement appears a bit irresponsible to me - basically their claiming to be able to make £9.5M turover from Aug 2001 to the end of Feb 2002. As continuing operations only appears to have produced £135,000 turover in the previous 6 months - and growth is not breathtaking - one can only assume well over £9M turover in the 6 months will come from Documedia. In which case i feel much more info should be given about the purchase.

As for trading profitability? I take this with a pinch of salt until i see action. Documedia is obviously loss making and needs turning around. As the acquistion was announced just 10 days before results and this claim i fail to see how management can be so confident. As for the rest of the busioess - well it looks like it needs a miracle to operate profitability - and even if it does on such tiny turnover any profit will be very very small.

Who is the chairman Warren Tayler who owns almost a third of the company? Never heard of him?

Basically i think there are a lot of questions that need answering before i could consider buying this - especially about Documedia. I'll certainly view full year results with some interest.

Hope it works out for you - Just expressing my view after having a look.

4D

[minuteman] 08/4/2002 16:43

Real ale:

You still think there is a seller out there??

Regards

[realale] 08/4/2002 13:01

Definately a seller in the market though but
should get a lot of stocked cleared today if not
all looking at the steady stream of 1-5k delayed
buys going through.

[kermat] 08/4/2002 11:39

Just doubled my holding.

Seems to be no problem in buying stock at the moment

[minuteman] 08/4/2002 11:19

Good start to the financial year!

Hopefully the seller, will have finished now and we can get back to the business of making some cash.

Glad I topped up again at 6.75p last week. ;-))

[calleva] 08/4/2002 08:36

We seem to be getting results today, judging by the way the price is nudging up. Hold onto your hats!

[humbugg] 07/4/2002 23:03

Could someone please tell me when the results are due.

thanks in advance.

[minuteman] 06/4/2002 19:57

No problem Rangers:

I have edited the email out... I wanted to share it with you chaps & chapess's, but at the same time I don't want to do any damage to the trust / relationship I have built up with the chairman,

Hope you understand.

[rangers99] 06/4/2002 04:48

Minuteman, thanks for the update. A modicum of reassurance at least.

[dmhzx] 06/4/2002 00:20

To the guys asking about 'nominated advisers'. Companies on AIM must have one of these, it's a condition of having a listing. As far as I can tell, the only thing that 'nominated advisers' actually do is submit a hefty bill.

As to the share price, no idea what's going on at all. If someone sells £200 worth the price drops. If they issue news either good or bad the price goes down.
If we get two days of virtually all buys the price goes down.

I find it hard to believe that dropping the bid by nearly 20%, while leaving the offer at 7 is going to achieve much on the treeshaking philosophy, and certainly so far today nobody has shown any interest in being separated from their shares for 5 p.
The ways of MMs are indeed dark and mysterious.

[minuteman] 05/4/2002 16:53

Anyway, off on the lash now, have a good weekend

[aghumra] 05/4/2002 15:55

700k MM buy!

[kermat] 05/4/2002 15:18

Thanks for your efforts minuteman

[minuteman] 05/4/2002 15:12

ok, heres the sells he talked about! I think the MM's have gone so low on the bid so as to protect themselves against more selling for CGT purposes.

[minuteman] 05/4/2002 14:45

Keh?

What do you reckon? like I've always said, this is at least a 12 month play, and this will be the first rung of the ladder; announcing break even. It also makes perfect sence that institutions want to maximise their holdings tax wise, so that would make sense...but not as much!

Anyway, I'm in this, happy about the co and it's future.

your thoughts?

[calleva] 05/4/2002 14:37

"Hope this puts your minds at a little more ease" - how many do you have? ;-)