Capital Gearing Share Discussion Threads

[david77] 18/1/2012 16:31

That's what I am proposing to do. I've got shares in two companies that have gone under. The buy trades are in my data. I am simply going to show them as having been sold for zero and tell the taxman what I've done. That doesn't mean it's right!!

[prolapse] 18/1/2012 15:35

Hello, I'm currently working out my CGT liability for the looming SA deadline and was wondering how I should enter some of my trades into the data I'm running through the 2 online CGT calculators and to HMRC. I have two holdings in what I perceive to be worthless delisted companies that I intent to try and make negligible value claim against, to offset an overall gain. I've read previous post on this thread about the subject and was after guidance on how to present the information. Do I 'create' trade in my trading data to show I sold the shares for zero (during the 10/11 financial year), run the data through the calculators as normal and just submit that info, with a statement to the effect that I'm making a NVC on those two holding?
Advice welcomed

[rivaldo] 18/1/2012 14:34

Cheers MIATA.

[rivaldo] 18/1/2012 14:09

Hi chaps (and chapesses), just found this thread for the first time.

Please could someone clarify - in terms of the matching rules for buying and selling within 30 days, does "days" mean calendar days or working days? I assume it means calendar days? So for example, the last day for matching a 1st Jan transaction would be 30th Jan?

[soundbuy] 18/1/2012 10:15

Thanks

thought perhaps I'd missed a simple trick over the last few years....

[miata] 18/1/2012 09:48

1) Yes, separate.

2) Simple answer, no.

Complex answer, your personal allowances will reduce the amount of CGT levied at higher rates if your taxable gains are very large.

ISAs, SIPPs and spreadbetting should enable you to avoid large taxable gains on financial assets.

[soundbuy] 18/1/2012 09:44

Help appreciated

CGT and Income tax completely separate?

Neither myself nor my wife work. We are not retired. We claim no benefits.

We have no income besides share sales. All shares held jointly 50:50

Just completing online CGT 2010/2011.

Can we use our personal allowance for income tax over and above out combined CGT of £20,200?

TIA

[singh is king] 17/1/2012 21:24

david 77,a little help please with the stonebanks calculator.
Having gone through my 2009/10 tax return,i now realise that although initially i intended to use the cgtcalculator to work out my CGT,in the end i had opted to use the stonebanks calculator,as i felt that the calculations were presented in a better way.
Before i realised this i had already entered all my trades for the 2010/11 year in the format required by the cgtcalculator.
I have converted these to the stonebanks formula now.However,i am getting wildly different results for CGT between the two calculators.Unlike last year when the figures matched almost to the pound.
I have checked the trade information and it all seems correct.
I can only think that i am making some sort of error in the way that i am inputting two years of information into the stonebanks calculator.
This is what i have done:
1)i have taken the closing share information from last years calculations, that is located in the final box of the stonebanks calculator.
2)I have added the information on each holding at the end of the 2009/10 tax year, as it appears in this box,as the first trade entry for that particular share - ie added it to all the trade information for the 2010/11 year,and then pressed the process data button.
The resulting figures are thousand of pounds out to those produced by the cgtcalculator,where i have have just entered two whole years of trades and used the calculator to seperate the results by tax year.
I would be grateful if you could comment on whether you think i have entered the information correctly for the stonebanks calculator.
Many thanks.
EDIT:
Hi David. I have just been through all the trades manually and surprise surprise have found a couple of errors that will probably account for the discrepancy.Will finish checking in the morning now and will let you know if i am still having problems.

[miata] 17/1/2012 17:42

"income" includes "salary"
PLUS
If you get perks or benefits from your employer these may also be taxable.
Taxable company benefits (eg Company car, Loans at low interest rates,
Living accommodation, Medical insurance and Other benefits per P11D)
Income from self employment/partnerships
Profits you make from working for yourself as a sole trader or partner.
Pension income
State Pension.
Personal or company pensions.
Retirement annuity.
Interest on savings
Bank and building society interest
National Savings and Investments accounts and bonds.
Investment income
Dividends on company shares
State benefits that are taxable such as: Carer's Allowance, Jobseeker's Allowance, Employment and Support Allowance, Incapacity Benefit - from week 29, Weekly Bereavement Allowance
Rental income (and from a lodger in your only or family home if more than £4,250 a year).
Pensioner bonds.
Trust income.

The tax charged on your salary cannot be treated as income tax loss.

[qipincha] 17/1/2012 17:31

Dear Gengulphus,

Thank you very much for your post 103. I have saved it in my computer.

As I worked through HM Revenue website, I have a new question regarding the definition of "income" and "income tax loss". Does "income" = "salary"? and the tax has been charged on my salary can be treated as income tax loss?

Many thanks.

Qipincha

[jp454] 16/1/2012 20:48

Gengulphus/Miata, your help please.

My husband and I have a few BTLs. We recently extended one of these properties (bought about 4 years ago) and and have moved into it, and sold our previous main residence. In due course, when we sell this house, what will our CGT position be? The house has gone up considerably in value since we bought it.

I would be very grateful for your thoughts on this.

[nightspot] 16/1/2012 19:57

Thanks Miata. Much more complicated than I had envisaged. Is there any preference between the stonebanks and the other cgt calculator program you have recommended? Do you know if I can transfer data sourced from ig directly to the programme (and if so, how?), or do I have to transcribe all data onto excel first? (and then what layout, and how to transfer to program?). My computing knowledge is very basic indeed.

Again, I appreciate your time. Definitely will go the SB way in future.

[miata] 16/1/2012 19:07

You were quite clear, but you omitted to subsequently number your first question.

How on earth am I to work out the cgt?
1) Use a cgt program (see post 6402)

Does each purchase and sale alter the average purchase price
2) Yes.

So does it matter which positions I take profits on, to control the gains level?
3) Yes. The 30 day rule may well apply if you are trading frequently and this would complicate matters. If it doesn't apply then its 55p.

Would a cgt calculator program resolve my headache?
4) Yes.



Shares bought and sold on the same day
First match the shares sold or disposed of with shares you bought on that same day. This is the 'same day' rule. If you haven't bought and sold shares on the same day, you move on to the next step.
Shares acquired within 30 days after selling
Next match the shares sold with shares acquired in the 30 days after the sale or disposal. This is the 'bed and breakfasting' rule. If you haven't bought any shares within 30 days of the sale, you then look at shares bought at any other time.

And consider spreadbets to avoid the problem.

[nightspot] 16/1/2012 18:30

Thanks for prompt reply Miata, but .. there remains a query, as your answers 'yes' to 1) and 3)appear to contradict.

If I added a parcel at 180p, bringing my avge holding cost to 145p, and then sold exactly that parcel at 200p, is my profit 55p or 20p per share? Because if it 55p, then it makes no difference how I allocate the disposal, whereas if it is 20p, then clearly I have to think about which parcels to take profits on.

My apologies if I have been less than clear.

[miata] 16/1/2012 17:30

1) Use a cgt program (see post 6402)
2) Yes.
3) Yes.
4) Yes.
And consider spreadbets to avoid the problem.

[nightspot] 16/1/2012 17:18

Hi, can I please ask a question which most probably has been asked and answered somewhere in the 6000 posts before.

I have recently been trading with ig in cfds, and have several times added to the same share position and also sold parts of my holding along the way. In addition, I have dabbled in commodities and forex. More by luck than knowledge I find myself over the limit if I include unrealised gains.How on earth am I to work out the cgt? 1)Does each purchase and sale alter the average purchase price or 2) is the cost of the sale based on FIFO? So 3) does it matter which positions I take profits on, to control the gains level? Would a cgt calculator program resolve my headache?

I would be very grateful for some direction from the experts here. Thankyou.

[ukinvestor220] 15/1/2012 20:25

one other thing re CFDs. i have understood that CFDs are a different vehicle to plain stock holdings and as such would use separate section 104 holdings and CGT calcs, the totals of which I add together for the final P/L balance. even to the extent that you could effectively 'bed and CFD' a holding to establish a gain / loss (like 'bed and ISA'), or 'bed and stock holding' out of a CFD position.
Any non agreement with that statement ..

[ukinvestor220] 15/1/2012 20:15

david77 and Gengulphus thanks for your help

[ziblot] 15/1/2012 14:37

Even the figures in the example I posted have changed so have removed my posts as the problem has to be my computer. Thanks.

[singh is king] 15/1/2012 11:38

rangers99.Thank you for confirming what i thought.
As i said i have checked much of the information manually and it all seems to be in order.
Most importantly the figures for all the section 104 holdings carried over from 2009/10 to 2010/11 all seem to match.