#Fenners66, exactly my take too, as we accelerate NGP profits from that sector these are not exposed to the settlement costs..Initial 100 pence drop on the ITCAN liability news should quickly recover now we know the structure of costs, but not our % (yet) but assume 1/3rd, and how they will be paid for..Expecting a bounce here today and going forward based on the read across from PM yesterday and their +10.5%..Possibly the next run to 3000 pence.. :o) |
Cash on hand after holding some back for working capital and then paying "annual payments based on a percentage of the Companies net income after taxes (excluding that generated by certain non-combustible products including heat-not-burn, e-vapor and nicotine pouch products) until the aggregate settlement amount is paid"
May take generations if at all to pay it off - especially as its suggested nextgen products are not included - so speed up the transition to them and pay nothing... |
Thanks Laurence LB i picked up on that after you posted as i only had a brief look at PM statement earlier.As you say it didn't exactly impact PM share price performance today! It's just as an investor here you get these legacy issues cropping up (we had the Nigerian competition commission fining BAT $110m late last year).I suppose they are small fry fines mostly in the great scheme of things, and the liabilities can be paid over many years to lessen the impact on results, but these revelations make one nervous as to what else is potentially hiding in the weeds.There's enough anti-smoking and health related objections to big tobacco globally by governments, that any more negative publicity than is necessary, needs to be avoided. |
I can't believe new customers to these NGPs, that big tobacco are concentrating on now as a growth sector, are only confined to PM's IQOS and Zyn.Okay PM has been around longer in the smoke-free category and their first to market advantage is there, but surely BAT's Vuse and Velo must be impacting their markets similarly with increased sales? Another bonus was PM's combustibles volumes held up quite well which is encouraging regarding the timescale transitioning over from sticks to smoke-free.The longer the time stick volume sales holds up, to buy time for NGPs to gain traction, the better. |
Up 10.5% wow, seen as a growth company, not a stagnant high yield company, report said.Tobacco stocks, seen as growth now, that's a novelty. |
 #Redbaron, also interesting to read what PM had to say about their potential costs in Canada, as the read across would be the same for BATS, the costs and implications have not held them back today at all..
PM 18.10.2024 - under the proposed plan, if ultimately approved and implemented, RBH, ITL and JTIM (the Companies) would pay an aggregate settlement amount of CAD 32.5BN (cUSD 23.5bBN).
This amount would be funded by an upfront payment equal to the Companies cash and cash equivalents on hand in Canada plus certain court deposits (subject to an aggregate withholding of CAD 750 million (approximately USD 540 million) for working capital inclusive of cash pledged as collateral) and annual payments based on a percentage of the Companies net income after taxes (excluding that generated by certain non-combustible products including heat-not-burn, e-vapor and nicotine pouch products) until the aggregate settlement amount is paid. As stated in the Proposed Plan, the issue of allocation of the CAD 32.5BN aggregate settlement as between the Companies in the CCAA proceedings remains unresolved (so far)..
So the parent BATS would be insulated with subsidiary ITCAN fully liable to pay on drip until settled...? and no impact to dividends..? |
Also one has to remember BAT sold their Russian operations (for peanuts) whereas i believe PM still has a presence there,BAT had a fine of $635m over N.Korean sanction irregularities and now the Canadian BAT subsidiary settlement for billions.It is unsettling as an investor when these nasties keep cropping up to dent confidence. |
PM +10.50% and having a cracking day.., hoping for some carry over here tomorrow as we head down the same path wrt to non combustibles and run up to results time.. :o) |
Yeah maybe after the uncertainty of our budget on 30th October(ie extra tax on sticks and possible vape tax) and if Trump is elected early in November.The only question to ask as a dividend income investor here is whether the dividend at its present level can be maintained over the next four or five years or maybe even increased.If you feel confident that dividends at this level can be maintained then invest.The Zyn growth story has propelled PM higher today and let's hope the Velo growth story at BAT has a similar effect on the share price in the next results announcement(markets love a growth story to boost share prices).Looking at the current BAT share price you have to think the markets are skeptical of current dividend pay outs and they're pricing in a possible dividend cut sometime like IMB was forced to do.The balance sheet is arguably stronger thanks to lowering of the debt burden, but the overhang of the Reynolds acquisition writedown is still with us sadly. |
All time high for PM, investors just use to see high dividend share in a stagnant market, now regarded as a growth company, report said.Sounds a bit like Bats, surely we start going back to 3000p. |
Providing direction in New York, third quarter results spurred Philip Morris, up 7.9% and General Motors, up 9.3% while Verizon dropped 4.2%.
Philip Morris, the Stamford, Connecticut-based tobacco company, reported operating income of $3.65 billion, up from $3.37 billion a year prior.
Looking ahead, the Marlboro owner raised its annual guidance for diluted EPS to between $6.20 and $6.26, and adjusted diluted EPS to $6.45 to $6.51.
‘In the third quarter, we delivered exceptionally strong performance, with record quarterly net revenues and earnings per share,’ said Chief Executive Officer Jacek Olczak.
In London, BAT perked up 1.4% in a read across from the results, although Imperial Brands remained in the red, down 0.6%. |
25.07.2024 - revenue from smokeless products now 17.9% of Group revenue, up 1.4 ppts vs FY2023..
Our new categories performance is expected to be weighted to the second half of 2024, driven by the phasing of innovation launches.
#Gecko, BATS mission plan target of 50%+ smokeless revenues by 2035 looks well thought out using PM as the benchmark, their results going down very well indeed at +8% today.. |
PM hitting record high, Bats we got some catching up to do.https://breakingthenews.net/Article/Philip-Morris-climbs-8-hitting-record-high-stock-price/62912986 |
You sold around 2900p bought back 2650p not too bad, plus dividends can't complain.Sit back enjoy 8.9% yield. Bats will find a level, its oversold. |
PM has a monopoly just about on heated tobacco that's why it's valued at a much higher PE
BATS has glo but it's not in the same league commercially, it's not even available in the UK FFS, which is absurd |
Added BATS too!
I waited enough having sold near the top so why not lol |
PM up 7% odd on the back of their Smoke Free offerings...ZYN doing awfully well.
BATs smoke free represent a far smaller percentage of biz than at PM...
Tobacco definitely cheapish (Altria, BAT) more so than PM whose P/E is far higher than the previous two. |
Market can change in a second.Phillip Morris shocked me, up 8.6% on good news. Bodes well for Bats, algorithm's should kick in on Bats.But dividend reinvestment kicks in shortly, don't want Bats too high. |
and here was you all nervy and wanting to dump bats and jump to imb. |
Bought back BTI in my SIPP USD account
I don't think it's bottomed yet but with PM results and market acting defensive again, it's looking cheap again |
PM leading the way today.., no reason why BATS/IMB will not follow the lead.. :o)See if we can recover the ITCAN legal resolution dip last week for starters, then onto the next dividend payday and sooner or later another run at 3000 pence.. |
PM figures shows Bats are ridiculously good value. 8.9% yield and buybacks. |
And guess what your charts were telling you to sell!If charts were so successful please tell me anyone how 90 percent of fund managers underperform the market! |
PM up 7.4% wow, come on Bats catch up, lol |
PM superb figures, bodes well for Bats, make Bats look very much oversold. |
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