Augean Share Discussion Threads

[brummy_git] 31/8/2017 12:15

It will also be interesting to see whether any of the directors have sufficient confidence to dig into their own pockets to buy shares at these incredibly low levels. I guess they can't do yet (re closed period) until the interims are released.

[cerrito] 31/8/2017 11:44

I sent on Tuesday this email to the FD; let's see what happens
quote
Clearly last Friday's announcement has got Private Investors like me scratching our heads.
I think it would be useful if you ask Edison to write a report outlining what the issues are here; I am comfortable that they could give this explanation without compromising the legal case.
I am indifferent if this is done as a separate piece or as part of the commentary on the Interims when announced on the 19th.
It would be useful IMO if when you announce the Interims if you could comment on what the attitude of HSBC is.
If you are planning on having an Analyst's presentation on the 19th can I ask you to give thought to have this voice recorded and the recording on the web-especially if you anticipate there will be good questioning from analysts. For me this is a time and money efficient way to get your message out.
Thanks and I appreciate you have a lot on your plate.
unquote

[1he patriot] 30/8/2017 21:03

Do they continue to charge their customers the same price knowing very well the TAXMAN wants more money?


That's only my thoughts from non financial analyst

[1he patriot] 30/8/2017 21:00

Hope Mr barker does not come after me with his big stick,

Can a potential liability exceeds MCAp? is that a possibility? Who knows !!!

Yes the director bought 3m shs to average down but this is a dangerous time for the company, too many uncertainties.


Hope it does not go belly up.

Can they shore up capital with 50% discounted rights issue at 10p?

Please be very quick before it's too late.

[dansaunders25] 30/8/2017 15:58

Reminds me of the last time I researched, early 2016, taken from London South East from memory:"Strange update as I read it. The very significant uncertainty is the landfill tax point . The subtlety is that Augean depsite handling hazardous waste pay very low landfill tax relative to the volumes they take in. Various exemptions are being claimed and some must be being queried by HMCE. If these can no longer apply for a significant % of the waste mix then its £ 82.50 a tonne extra per load which would go straight to HMCE but would also double the price a customer has to pay Augean..Landfill volumes have always been the key to profits for Augean and any uncertainty over the volumes that will come to them is a problem. Volumes will be very high if there is uncertainty as developers and market players rush to get waste off site and into Augean but would fall off a cliff if these exemptions are being removed as the price hike is so significant. They may end up at Augean if the market cannot find an alternative but Augean will not see any £ benefit if so the extra costs they will have to charge will go to HMCE."

[dansaunders25] 30/8/2017 15:57

Reminds me of the last time I researched, early 2016, taken from London South East from memory:"Strange update as I read it. The very significant uncertainty is the landfill tax point . The subtlety is that Augean depsite handling hazardous waste pay very low landfill tax relative to the volumes they take in. Various exemptions are being claimed and some must be being queried by HMCE. If these can no longer apply for a significant % of the waste mix then its £ 82.50 a tonne extra per load which would go straight to HMCE but would also double the price a customer has to pay Augean..Landfill volumes have always been the key to profits for Augean and any uncertainty over the volumes that will come to them is a problem. Volumes will be very high if there is uncertainty as developers and market players rush to get waste off site and into Augean but would fall off a cliff if these exemptions are being removed as the price hike is so significant. They may end up at Augean if the market cannot find an alternative but Augean will not see any £ benefit if so the extra costs they will have to charge will go to HMCE."

[brummy_git] 30/8/2017 15:33

Given the number of smallish trades today, then to me it looks as though somebody has tipped/recommended to sell the stock - perhaps Tom Winifred?

[dragonboy] 30/8/2017 15:16

Good luck CK.

I think sub 15p close by friday. I am staying safe for the time being.


Regards,

DB

[clocktower] 30/8/2017 15:13

Better than Black or Red at the Casino 1he

[1he patriot] 30/8/2017 15:09

some people buying at 32p were courageous. I suppose you have be courageous to catch a falling knife.


Some people got lucky on Provident, I took 90p very quickly, then another 60p. :). To be honest I was not confident in that trade.


It's the bloody unknown unknowns dragging this down, I am afraid.


Nice calculation Mr Barker.


Can this trade at massive discount to what it's worth, till things settle?

[clocktower] 30/8/2017 15:09

You could well be correct DB but the finger lingers on the buy button.

[dragonboy] 30/8/2017 15:02

Big No No CK.

Come back at 10p or less, even so could be very risky.

There could be a massive sell order being filled, could be reported in a few days.


why would anyone buy if no one know how big a fine going to be,if HMRC wins?

[clocktower] 30/8/2017 14:59

Take what you can while you can, seems to be the order of the day BUT how long before the bounce starts? Are we at a good entry point?

[el chapo] 30/8/2017 14:42

could be an II dumping hence the collapse? who knows !!!!!!!!!!

[el chapo] 30/8/2017 14:40

Of course it can value out at a later stage.

The massive stampede will happen in the oversold region. IMO.

[el chapo] 30/8/2017 14:19

In all honesty, I would not be surprised to see sub 10p. Dyor IMHO

[el chapo] 30/8/2017 14:16

LOL

Buffet takes note from ME. He's too old now. :), just jesting.

Very large fine for me means could definitely exceeds mcap, negative equity, blah blah


e.g bankruptcy.

Please do not begrudge me for making an unqualified comment ( as a 100% numpty). Just my common sense and possibilities.


There are different mindsets.

[jbarker5555] 30/8/2017 00:31

el chapo - how big do you expect liabilities (if any) to be to out strip NAV?
From Dec 16 I get:
non-current assets - £71.913m
current assets - £22.028m
current liabilities - £18.071m
non-current liabilities - £21.303m

minus goodwill & intang. - £26.262m

equals assets - £28.305m

Depreciation looks about right (IMO as a numpty) so it would have to be a fairly hefty fine to wipe out NAV.

P.S. Dig. Look has M/Cap at £29.31m . . . for assets of £28.305M ?? Warren Buffett and cigar butt comes to mind?! AIMO :)

[el chapo] 29/8/2017 17:10

Averaging down.

He could be averaging all the way to 0p though, if this goes bankrupt.

what will happen if liability is bigger than NAV?

Negative equity = insolvency. Amen

[brummy_git] 29/8/2017 16:27

Chris Mills has just bought approximately 3 million more shares in order to take advantage of Friday's price drop. This guy is a smart cookie and not somebody who usually throws good money after bad

[buywell3] 29/8/2017 16:04

The BOD now need to say what legal tax advice was sought and what has been done about it.


From the latest annual report .... the Mitigation re TAX is very vague and does not IMO address the Tax legislation risk.



''Risk description

Tax legislation

The use of tax legislation to drive environmental objectives,particularly the diversion of wastes away from landfill disposal and towards greater treatment and
recycling, represents a risk in all time horizons.

Landfill tax regulations (LFT1) were last updated in December 2015.

LFT is not totally prescriptive on the tax treatment of the many alternate types of waste received by the group.

This could lead to differences in opinion on the treatment and the applicable tax
rate.

The standard rate of landfill tax rose to £84.40 per tonne on 1 April 2016 and will continue to rise in line with the retail price index.

Whilst European and national legislation encourages “zero landfill” solutions for a range of waste streams,disposal in properly engineered and permitted landfills continues to be the most appropriate waste management solution for many hazardous wastes.



Mitigation

Develop a range of waste treatment solutions for customers.

Broaden capabilities to ensure the Group’s sites are able to
accept all those wastes which do require landfill disposal.

Maintain specialist testing facilities and seek appropriate
external chemical, engineering, taxation and legal advice.

Modelling of the financial impact under different external
legislative positions.''


see page 43

[el chapo] 29/8/2017 12:12

Looks like marked down to 23p bid could be a possibility.

Need some figures how large can be the liability.

PI being kept in the dark.

[el chapo] 29/8/2017 10:19

HMRC does not go after big guys.

Big guys can afford tens of millions in legal fees, small companies can't

[el chapo] 29/8/2017 10:18

Unknown liabilities and massive legal bill to fight TAXMAN, does not bode well for the company.


Too many uncertainties.

Could be more institutions dumping too.

[a0148009] 28/8/2017 00:37

Typical HMRC tack-tick swooping on one of the smaller companies with limited resources,a soft target that does not wish to get involved in protracted litigation.
Lets hope Augean have not knowing been fiddling their figures.