Angle Share Discussion Threads

[boris cobaka] 09/1/2024 13:15

Is there anything good about it or does that stick in the windpipe?

[banshee] 09/1/2024 13:06

I sold at 1.53 post FDA. (purchase 40p courtesy of Jupiter) having been in and out previously as well. At the time I was irritated I didn't get 1.58. Seems odd now.

I hawe never shorted the share.

The fact that I am the only person here to mention the issues with Parsortix, for example, shows how ill informed and unbalanced the debate is imo.

[dealer55] 09/1/2024 13:04

Yup, bitter losers can't move on. Live in the now...

[boris cobaka] 09/1/2024 13:02

As I said before stale bears are as bad as stale bulls. They both suffer from confirmation bias. Care needed.

[dealer55] 09/1/2024 13:01

so Banshee you are selling you holding as you hate the prospect at AGL?

[banshee] 09/1/2024 12:57

Parsortix acceptably as a research machine, thanks in large part to relentless subsidies by AGL courtesy of the AIM cash machine, is not the issue. The issue is its suitably as a commercial diagnostic device with its single sample stream, lengthy processing time and need for frequent manual intervention. ie. extra staff

IMO DYOR etc

[bagpuss67] 09/1/2024 12:56

How long on average does it/will it take for most of the science covered in these research papers take to be commercialised?

One thing that the supposed micky mouse competition does is get things launched..

[seagreen] 09/1/2024 12:54

Just posting (now about 35 posts in rapid sucession) because you are a swell guy

Give me a break



Banshee
9 Jan '24 - 12:13 - 22297 of 22309
0 0 1
I am not a shorter. Just someone with too much experience of the AGL hype machine. Hype is the only thing that really distinguishes AGL from its less hyperbolic competition imo. But then most of the competitors haven't just issued a revenue warning and have a yawning funding gap coming up.

Most Ctc co's seem to spend only a fraction of what AGL does in fact, but then I expect their CEO's earn a lot less.

[w t tutte] 09/1/2024 12:50

Epic Science 7 published papers in 7 years .... how many have been published in that period on Parsortix ? Go let us know .... you will need a lot more hands and feet than you have, or at least you should have, if you want to get to the number.

[banshee] 09/1/2024 12:46

"Epic Sciences is a small loss making start up that has been going for 10 years", Almost a definition of AGL except you need to add a few more years. The reason some other co's are more selective is that they don't have hyped up access to the AIM cash machine of gullible investors with "breakthrough research" news that just states the obvious.

[bagpuss67] 09/1/2024 12:45

Yes. Epic sciences. The one that raised $67m in the 12months to April 2023..I havent compared it's size or losses to AGLs yet..

[bagpuss67] 09/1/2024 12:43

I'm a long term holder with a decent holding left. I'm just tyring to illicit robust responses to Banshees points which I don't think are trivial..

Whilst you are at it can you address the breakthrough point?

[w t tutte] 09/1/2024 12:38

I think it is probably worth pointing out that you are talking about Epic Sciences and not EPIC Systems. Epic Sciences is a small loss making start up that has been going for 10 years, in 10 years has had less than 20 Peer reviewed papers written where RareCell has been used, it is not regulatory approved, it is far more expensive than Parsortix, it is not scalable. Probably also worth pointing out that since 2017 it has only focused on prostate cancer.

[bagpuss67] 09/1/2024 12:37

Fair comment I think. We are due various ups and downs and then an eventual fundraise.

[seball] 09/1/2024 12:28

Angle is only FDA cleared system. Buy and Hold

[bagpuss67] 09/1/2024 12:26

Why don't you just address the point he raised? What is superior about AGLs tech to Rarecells and why is AGLs ability to carry out a sample to answer test deploying analysis of ctDNA and CTC derived data from a single draw a breakthrough when rarecell say they do that and Epic have a launched LDT deploying that appproach..

[banshee] 09/1/2024 12:24

Iset can do 12 samples at once AGL only one. That is a selective quote tho. But I am not knocking AGL's tech per se. I Just claim it is pretty run of the mill amd above al it is essentially a research machine, as are many of its it competitors. High levels of manual intervention and one machine per sample are huge disadvantages in the world of commercial processing.

There are reasons why it has been so very slow to catch on.

Parsortix machines cost a notional 40k, so you would need to spend 480k to match the throughput rate of an ISET one ;)

[w t tutte] 09/1/2024 12:19

I love Banshee, he is so hard working and does make me giggle. I can just imagine him sitting there, with his tin foil hat on, bashing away at the keyboard.

Length of Test - If a test takes 4,6, 12, 24 hours or 5 days for that matter and the result is you will end up on a treatment that cures your cancer, or extends your life by months or reduces the side effects of your long treatment, how long the test take is utterly irrelevant. The additional information they were able to demonstrate that could be obtained from the CTC but was not available from the dead cancer fragments will do precisely that.

Competition - As to the competition there is none, at least none that is peer reviewed or validated and as we know at Angle that take years and years and years. I imagine as we speak, Banshee tin foil hat glinting from the single lightbulb in his darkened room, is stabbing at his keyboard firing off email after email to Eisai, Cancer Research Trust UK, Barts Cancer Institute, Abbot Labs, Illumina, Cambridge University, University of Tübingen, The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center, Cannon Research Institute, University of Basel,University of Duesseldorf, Research Institute of Santiago, Montpellier University Et al. "You fools" he will write " You fools, why do you use that awful Parsortix system when there are so many other, better options to capture your CTCs. If you email with the secret Illuminati symbol of brotherhood I will be able to share the names of the competitors with you. You must not be taken in by the fools gold of peer reviews, validation and regulatory approval."

Shareholder - I am afraid to admit that I am indeed one of those long-term shareholders he highlights, one of those who really knows the terrible, dark and negative truth about Parsotix and Angle but still, I refuse, refuse I tell you, to action this knowledge and sell my shares. I wonder why I do that? is that I am lazy, maybe I have a form of Stockholm syndrome, or maybe it is just that I enjoy pain ? Whatever the reason we are so lucky to have Banshee, his certainty and clarity are like a beacon. He is a light in the darkness, selflessly and without ulterior motive he works desperately to save me and many like me, from ourselves. Please don't stop Banshee, I can do it. I am moving towards the light, my order is in, my finger is hovering over the sell button .... I am a failure, I tried, I really did but I just can't do it. Selfless Banshee you are not to blame, although, this time you failed to save me from myself, you can take comfort in the fact that you tried, in the end the failure was mine not yours.

[pj84] 09/1/2024 12:16

“Microfilter membrane microfluidics are a more simplistic group of size-based CTC separation techniques. Such devices comprise simply a filter with pores of defined sizes and shapes through which blood is passed either using a pressure regulator or by centrifugation. Such devices are generally quick and easy to use which are both key characteristics when considering clinical applicability.”;

“The ISET (Isolation by Size of Tumour Cells) (Rarecells Diagnostics, Paris, France) consists of a design of 8 μm cylindrical pores and allows for 12 samples to be filtered in parallel. In contrast to other membrane microfilters, the ISET has a relatively slow processing time whereby 10 mL blood is processed within 4 h and blood must be diluted 1:10 to prevent membrane clogging. Once loaded, the sample is filtered by applying a vacuum resulting in gentle aspiration of the sample [31]. As little as 1 mL of blood can be processed, which may be advantageous as blood draws can often be difficult in cancer patients and they also claim high sensitivity of the device with the ability to detect as little as one single tumour cell spiked into 1 mL blood [110]. They have also developed the associated CTC-biopsy system, a semi-automated CTC detection system to allow for easy enumeration following filtration.

One group carried out a direct comparison between the ISET and CellSearch in 60 patients with metastatic breast, prostate and lung cancers, with concordant results obtained in only 55% (11 of 20) of breast, 60% (12 of 20) of prostate and 20% (4 of 20) of lung cancer patients [31]. The CellSearch outperformed the ISET in breast cancer patients whilst the ISET outperformed the CellSearch in prostate and lung cancer patients and in total, 30% of patients (18 of 60) were found to have negative CTC counts with the CellSearch, whilst only 5% (3 of 60) of patients were negative with the ISET. The variability in concordance seen here clearly shows the limitations of EpCAM-based enrichment methods and also the underestimation of CTCs processed using the CellSearch. Another group compared CTCs from RCC patients using the CellSearch and ISET [111]. The CellSearch has only a 10–20% detection rate in RCC patients and the ISET showed detection rate of 36.1%. Other studies have shown the ISET is better than the CellSearch at detecting CTCs in patients with NSCLC, pancreatic, oesophageal and metastatic prostate cancer.

The ISET features in several clinical trials (Table 2), most notably the IMMUNO-PREDICT trial (NCT02827344) and the STALKLUNG01 trial (NCT02372448). The IMMUNO-PREDICT trial analyses PDL-1 expression on CTCs isolated from NSCLC patients, the detection of which would allow the stratification of patients for PDL-1 inhibitor therapy, negating the requirement for invasive biopsies. The STALKLUNG01 trial was designed to detect ALK gene rearrangements in CTCs, allowing patients with inoperable NSCLC to benefit from crizotinib treatment in instances when tumour biopsy is not feasible. Since approximately 30% of tumour biopsies contain insufficient material for ALK molecular characterisation, they concluded that CTC analysis could effectively be used in parallel with tumour biopsy analysis to allow a more complete identification of patients who would benefit from ALK inhibitor therapy [77]. Aside from lung cancer, the ISET also features in clinical trials for colon and rectal cancers (NCT02554448, NCT02979470), bronchial cancer (NCT03328559), malignant pleural mesothelioma (NCT01776385) and prostate cancer (NCT04702633).”;

[pj84] 09/1/2024 12:14

seagreen not sure if that was aimed at me but I am trying to show the full text not just the selective bits.

In particular leaving this part out "Size-based microfluidic devices are likely to pave the way for the next generation of CTC enrichment technologies due to their separation occurring independently of cell surface markers, which in theory allows the capture of the full heterogeneous population of CTCs from any type of cancer."

[banshee] 09/1/2024 12:13

I am not a shorter. Just someone with too much experience of the AGL hype machine. Hype is the only thing that really distinguishes AGL from its less hyperbolic competition imo. But then most of the competitors haven't just issued a revenue warning and have a yawning funding gap coming up.

Most Ctc co's seem to spend only a fraction of what AGL does in fact, but then I expect their CEO's earn a lot less.

[seagreen] 09/1/2024 12:06

Usual scum ADVFN short sellers trying to persuade everyone they are wrong to hold
So predictable ...LOL

[pj84] 09/1/2024 12:03

Volume of shares traded since the announcement now 100m so will be interesting to see any major changes in holdings over 3%.

[pj84] 09/1/2024 12:00

The FULL text about Parsortix from the previous 2021 article quoted.

"Size-based microfluidic devices are likely to pave the way for the next generation of CTC enrichment technologies due to their separation occurring independently of cell surface markers, which in theory allows the capture of the full heterogeneous population of CTCs from any type of cancer. These devices are based on the knowledge that CTCs (~8–30 μm) are generally larger than leukocytes (~12–15 µm) and are less deformable than other blood components. Since there is some degree of crossover between CTC and leukocyte size, it is crucial that size-based microfluidic devices are optimised in order to maximise CTC recovery rates whilst minimising inevitable leukocyte contamination rates.

The Parsortix (Angle) device has been developed with a chip containing a stepped/gradiated separation structure that gradually decreases with size, with final gap sizes ranging from 4.5 μm to 10 μm. The most common GEN3D6.5 Cell Separation Cassette has a “critical gap” size of 6.5 µm which acts to capture larger CTCs and allows other smaller, more deformable blood components to pass through [113]. The device is fairly slow at processing, taking ~4 h for 7.5 mL blood and is only semi-automated, requiring significant user input. Following cell capture, a reverse pressure is then applied to harvest the CTCs. The device is able to capture CTC clusters and there is the option for on-chip staining, however on chip imaging is difficult. Using the 6.5 µm gap size cassette, an average capture rate of 62.4% was achieved across breast- and NSCLC-derived cell lines, however purity decreases as the cassette “critical gap” size decreases [35]. The system is well suited to enrich CTCs from clinical samples (although harvested cells are not pure CTCs), taking advantage of the different physical properties (i.e., size and deformability) of the target rare cells compared to other blood components such as RBCs and WBCs.

The Parsortix is used in several clinical trials (Table 2) including those for NSCLC (NCT03771404), breast (NCT03427450), prostate (NCT04021394) and ovarian cancers (NCT02781272, NCT02785731), however no results have been published to date."