Thought provoking post jelenko, thanks for sharing. |
 No need to look for too much detailed information, Just remember that it is easier to sell more things to an existing customer than to win a new customer and Illumina have 23,000 machines in use, all of which would benefit from adding Parsortix at the front end.
Just do the numbers, Sunnyside 23,000 x £80,000 = £1.8b machine sales
Assume 1 cassette per day per machine 23,000 x £100 = £2.3m per day = £598m per annum(5 day week, days only)
Now that is the ultimate upside but why have an expensive Illumina machine and not use it and why not use live cells at the front end as well as dead cell fragments?
So say we go 50/50 with Illumina £ £1.8b *50% = £900m ( machine sales)plus £598m *50% = £299m p.a. ( Cassetttes)
The machine sales for us equates to £2.79 per share. And Cassettes £299m / 322,640,000 shares = £0.92 per share x P/E 6 = £ 5.56 per share plus £2.79 = £8.35 per share Total.
That is the sunny side of an Illumina collaboration without any other business!! So yes at £0.15p we have a way to go, |
Hi Htrocka2, that’s an interesting point you raise about AGL needing clarity on the manufacturing volumes to effectively meet potential demand.
I’m not sure if this helps, but in last January’s Proactive presentation, someone asked how the company could scale up if necessary.
In response, AN said that for processing samples, they could increase capacity by adding extra shifts and could “easily expand” their lab space if needed. However, their long-term strategy, once large-scale adoption is reached, would be to train customer labs to handle the process themselves.
Regarding the cassettes and instruments, this was IG’s reply:
“we outsource our manufacturing of the cassette to a specialist nano-manufacturer in Germany, and we also outsource the assembly manufacturing of the instruments. So, we can scale up pretty easily, we’ll probably add a second source supplier for North America in that sort of circumstance”. |
ref. Bermudashorts...
1) Increased volume of samples being run through their installed base of sequencing machines with accompanying uplift in sales of kits/reagents etc.
2) Ability to offer their clients and end to end workflow for ctDNA and CTC analysis from the same blood sample
If Illumina are offering their clients equipment supplied by AGL, would this imply that a contract of some sort is in place?.....or are Illumina just ordering 'off the shelf'?...not to mention that AGL would need to now what sort of volumes they're intended to manufacture so a to supply the demand. |
htrocka2
Bermuda's right. The research area Ilmn are operating in is steadily becoming more congested and now AI has ramped this up further. There's a need to be recognized as the 'go to' platform so any opportunity to strengthen and broaden the offering would be a major boost. AGL's offering helps to create a usp to underpin the service.
My thinking is that the large pharma are beginning to circle.... |
PATT,
I was just countering this kind of nonsense.
You don't need to do that - it's obvious to anyone that those kinds of posts are drivel. |
1) Increased volume of samples being run through their installed base of sequencing machines with accompanying uplift in sales of kits/reagents etc.
2) Ability to offer their clients and end to end workflow for ctDNA and CTC analysis from the same blood sample
It's a win/win |
What benefit does Illumina get out of promoting AGL? |
I was just countering this kind of nonsense.
“Just the start of Illumina sending cash Angle's way
[EDIT : Basically the whole thing was an advert for Angle PLC and Parsotix/CTC which Angle didn't have to pay for ! Illumina are really serious about developing this relationship. I will be shocked if they don't take AGL out lock,stock and barrel. The only negotiating point for AGL will be whether it is $20bn Illumina or $200bn AstraZeneca or $2Trillion Google/Apple/Microsoft etc who end up acquiring AGL]”
If you find me disputing such ridiculous statements rather boring then filter me. |
Four posts yesterday PATT. It’s tedious - I think we all know your views. You tell us often enough. |
Tommy. Please show me the rule that says you cannot comment on a share when you actually copy and paste their own RNSs as the basis for your views?
Every board needs balance. It needs somebody politely pointing out that the “going to the moon” views, usually based on zero evidence, are contradicted by their history and their own RNSs.
Glad to help. Thanks. Love PATT |
PATT, why are you “just wondering…R21; on a share you are not even invested in? This is your fourth post on here today. Have you not got a board to post on in a share you actually are invested in? |
Not sure what he's trying to do - repeating the same lines again and again - you've made them now move on. |
Just wondering why you are even here.Plenty on here see you as a clown. I agree. |
16/4/21 RNS
ANGLE Founder and Chief Executive, Andrew Newland, commented:
"We are delighted to have contracted with a pharma company developing numerous cancer drugs and look forward to working closely with them on their trials. ANGLE believes that there is a substantial business opportunity in providing services to pharma and biotech customers to support cancer drug trials. This contract demonstrates that our investment in clinical laboratories and a pharma services business, a key use of proceeds from our fundraising in October 2020, is already delivering. We look forward to announcing further progress on the expansion of this important business area for ANGLE in due course."
That was at 46p per share. Just wondering if they are really delivering! |
Trinity Delta view: ANGLE’s collaboration with Illumina, the global leader in next-generation sequencing systems and assays, has significant potential to expand the Parsortix commercial opportunity. Liquid biopsy centred on ctDNA analysis is already widely adopted and these recent studies confirm that Parsortix-enabled dual CTC-DNA and ctDNA analysis can provide additional complementary information for cancer diagnosis and longitudinal monitoring. Establishing an optimised end-to-end workflow for simultaneous analysis is a key step towards supporting Illumina’s customers and offering CTC analysis for DNA dual analysis NGS. In our view, these developments should also help secure new Pharma Services contracts – a key strategic objective for ANGLE – by providing these customers with a sample-to-answer solution that delivers comprehensive molecular insights across many cancers to help guide targeted therapy. Our ANGLE valuation is £155m, equivalent to 48p per share. |
Quite - tying up with any business like Illumina when you are valued less than £50m is impressive.
If AZN news comes shortly we won't be anywhere near here. |
One thing you can be certain of is that Illumina is not marketing Parsortix out of kindness. There is clear commercial motive. I suspect it will market its customer base, do its sums and make a decision whether to take Angle in-house or continue the romance a while longer while the market and the technology develops. Either way won’t do shareholders any harm. |
When considering whether AN is being realistic with what he says..bear in mind previous statements such as Jan 23
ANGLE Founder and Chief Executive, Andrew Newland, commented:
"It has been a breakthrough year for ANGLE, with both FDA clearance and excellent results from the ovarian cancer study. Whilst we have not yet seen the expected acceleration in revenue, the pipeline of opportunities is growing strongly and we are encouraged by the level of engagement with pharma companies, including major pharma companies, medtech companies and clinical laboratories globally. ANGLE has the resources in place to deliver on its strategic and commercial plans and starts the new year cautiously optimistic despite the challenging market."
Scroll forward to 31/12/24 and he has delivered £3m revenue despite forecasting £6m in June 24. While Parsortix is amazing, it might be too amazing and complex. The industry would have to completely change everything they do. That is why I would not take white tip researchers enthusiasm as the forerunners of any commercial traction. They love Parsortix. But they don’t write the cheques. |
And from the conclusion that Anne-Sophie referenced:
“But to go back to Anna's presentation, this ctDNA gives you a huge number of actionable targets, but the CTC give you access to a lot MORE biomarkers. So obviously DNA abnormality is one of them, as I presented today, but you can also access the RNA expression, the protein expression, and potentially do other functional testing. So that multiomic approach is really possible if you combine both analyte and if you have the best sample possible. So there is more to come in this so please watch this space. We're working on this multiomic approach, and this dual analysis approach. |
raddersSandy - cool, cheers for that. It was particularly relevant imho especially, as I understand it, certain samples are being saved for RNA analysis. |
Hi Gooosed, the RNA reference is still in the Q&A (if I have got the right one) it’s about 50:48 into webinar.
“We have done some RNA testing. So that's what I mentioned in my conclusions tonight. This is coming. This, multiomic approach is something we really believe in. So what we are currently doing is to be able to do from one single blood tube, the cell free DNA, the DNA from the CTC and the RNA from the CTC as well. So all the three together, that’s what's coming next” |
Which is actually a positive for angle as they need to invest in other areas. |
Illumina have their own decisions and objectives and problems
Illumina shares tumbled 8% Friday on investor concerns about the future of the gene-sequencing equipment maker’s business in China, growing competitive threats, and the potential for Trump administration cuts to federal research funding.
China’s Commerce Ministry this week said it placed Illumina, the leading maker of next-generation sequencing machines, on its list of “unreliable entities,” part of China’s retaliation against President Trump’s new tariffs on Chinese imports to the U.S.
Analysts say the move threatens to eliminate Illumina’s China business, which is about 7% of total company revenue.
Illumina executives said during an earnings call late Thursday that they are working with the relevant parties to resolve the issue, and that the company’s new 2025 earnings forecast assumes revenue from China.
Investors didn't react well, in part because they figure the forecast might fall if China revenue later gets taken out. Leerink Partners analysts say an Illumina exit from the China market seems inevitable, and analysts are taking the business out of their forecasts. Leerink said Illumina faces a Catch-22 about keeping China in its forecast because there are negotiations underway to try to preserve the business.
Investors also are concerned about emerging competition for Illumina, with heavyweight Roche set to launch a competing product soon, plus the potential for the new Trump administration to cut federal research funding to labs that buy Illumina equipment. |
Unless I've missed it & perhaps of minor importance, the mention of the inclusion of RNA as well as ctDNA & CTC from one tube of blood, at the end of the webinar appears to have been edited out. |
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