Am World Finusd Discussion Threads

[peterreidsmith] 08/6/2001 11:02

Does noone bother working out the Capital Fulcrum Points (annualised growth in shares needed to break even from warrants), gearing and other normal warrant ratios?

If we work that out and post it at least provides something useful:

[the wah] 08/6/2001 10:15

thanks Keithr, much appreciated.

[keithr] 07/6/2001 14:30

The epic is EFMA current price 23.75 nms is 500.hope that helps.

[the wah] 07/6/2001 14:07

Does anyone know anything about Edinburgh Dragon Trust warrants? The underlying trust epic is EFM, but the addition of the letter W to the epic produces nothing in this case , although it works for all other warrants I have tried.
The warrants are listed on trustnet and in the FT, but without the epic I cannot follow them on ADVFN.

[keithr] 19/4/2001 07:55

Morning jerry no not yet but I,m watching dropped back from 20% to 6% up I'm in tema at the moment

[jerryd] 19/4/2001 07:46

its time to keep a close eye on India again,Keith are you back in yet?

[keyboard] 13/3/2001 00:25

alchemy (post 14)- Dr Mobius has been saying that for years and one day it WILL happen, but not because he said or says this. Having said that, I think TEMA are still worth looking at, as the expiry date is still three years away.Three years is a long time for warrants. I consider FINW - expiry also 2004 - a better buy, if one follows them.

[energyi] 11/3/2001 23:32

Interesting thread.

Ive run implied volatilities on several warrants on IT's.
They trade at "shockingly high" levels IMHO. Pity we
cannot sell them short easily

[zzaxx99] 11/3/2001 21:49

Interesting piece in the FT yesterday on , which I didn't even know existed, with a case study,

[acol] 11/3/2001 14:26

Just came across this thread by accident. I used to deal a lot in warrants - especially Investment Trust warrants. Great in a rising market but hard to make money at the present time.

IMO it is essential to use a good old fashioned broker who is able to get inside the wide spread. For example, the other week I picked up 30,000 Foreign & Colonial Emerging Markets Warrants @ 3.25p. Saved myself £150 on commission! This was a bit speculative but I took the view that at some time over the next 3 years emerging markets are likely to show some improvement. With gearing of around X20 I could be looking at a good profit.

I try to monitor about 20 IT warrants. This list includes the Japanese warrants - which at the present time I would not touch with a barge pole. However, at some stage they may be an interesting proposition.

I used to post quite frequently on the old esi and the E-Trade boards. We had quite a select community of posters who shared an interest in warrants (nice to see post No 1 by Biffer - hope you are doing alright in this market!)

[alchemy] 11/3/2001 09:40

Just read the neighbouring thread look at this one!!

[alchemy] 11/3/2001 09:33

Warrants are "written" by the company themself. Some dilution therfore
but very much second order stuff so not to worry.

Options are traded by the market.

There are some long-term options in the US called LEAPS
had I bought some MSFT leaps - calls - in 1996 I would not be writing this!!

Or some Puts in February 2000 come to that

92% 0f all options expire worthless - which is a fact not a value judgement in that they are used not just for speculation but hedging and the like.

I have always liked Templeton Emerging but their expiry date is now 2004 and that seesm to be getting too close, too fast.

However Mobius the EMrging mArket Guru says it is obvious that the Merging markets will have a run in the next five years. I paraphrase

ttfn

[unager] 10/3/2001 21:24

Regarding the previous posting the full stop at the end would prevent you from getting the Web Site. Please try

[unager] 10/3/2001 21:14

For anyone unsure about warrants may I suggest that theytake a look at "Introductory guide to warrants" on the Web Site at May I also point out one important factor which appears to be overlooked by otherwise quite intelligent individuals.?THE TAKEOVER.Take the case of NMS.Even Mr Whittaker recently bought warrants in NMS although they would have to move substantially in a relatively short time span to show a profit, If someone offered to takeover the company at triple the current price holders of warrants would still lose everything.Just a thought not to be overlooked by anyone dabbling for the first time. Good Luck!

[zzaxx99] 10/3/2001 00:12

As I've just started reading up on options, I think I can answer for the relative lack of interest - options are (a) bloody complicated, far more so than warrants (though I agree that warrants are a special case of call options), (b) traded on a separate market which most people won't have access to through their normal broker.

[peterreidsmith] 09/3/2001 16:00

It's all about fulcrum points - get a spreadsheet.

zzaxx99: Ofcourse their bldy complicated; if it was easy everyone would do it!
That's the whole point(!)
Nothing that "everyone" does will ever work - any advantage is arbitraged away in the liquidity.
Options are still inefficient - theory says they are almost always too expensive, and the arbirtage/combinative possibilities are just too much for everyone to keep upwith (one of the reasons MMs stopped giving realiable prices in RT on-line - they were getting scalped!).

[keyboard] 09/3/2001 15:45

finw have been good warrants to trade in and out of, provided one follows them religiously. At the moment the spread does not look appealing.

[peterreidsmith] 08/3/2001 16:14

Hmmm...ok, if you understand warrants then you must follow options (warrants are just long term call options), so how come there was no interest in the opt options thread??

Warrants: You need the math to work out the sums. Easy spreadsheet stuff, if you can't find it on the web let me know - I have an old sheet lying around somewhere.

[keyboard] 08/3/2001 16:08

finw have dropped in price recently. I was hoping to get some at 12p but the price seems to be moving upwards again. Any thoughts.

[muchos wonga] 12/12/2000 11:54

What do brokers demand of you before they will let you deal? I'm aware that they won't just let anybody buy warrants and I wonder what I need to do to get started.

Which brokers do you guys use.

Cheers

[coltbt] 12/12/2000 11:40

i invest and tech stocks (hence the nick), but i also dabble in investment trust warrants.

i am basically in for the long term, and i keep snapping up a few hundred pounds worth every couple of months or so.

at the moment i feel i have missed out on some that have flown,
i.e, tr prop, and wigmore prop

however, i am holding:-

f&c emerging mkts
murray emerging economies
tea plantations (disaster so far on this one, lucky i only put £400 at 5p)
henderson japanese smaller


i am also looking closely at:-

templeton emerging mkts
scottish oriental



anyway, its about time someone started a thread on warrants.

well done

good luck

invesco tokyo

[taubatauba] 12/12/2000 11:24

Activity is back again in Fleming Indian IT warants.

[belsizepark] 28/6/2000 18:59

Hi jerryd,

Yes I invest in warrants ..I love 'em. I'm not invested in Flemming India however as I am not an expert on the Indian Economy. I am aware that there is a lot of "Indian Brains" employed in silicon valley and some of that expertise is no doubt also in India itself, but I do not know enough or have a good enough feel to invest in that one.

Warrants would be described as risky investments and I certainly would not suggest anybody invest in them unless they fully understood them. I'm not going to give a lesson here on warrants here so please ignore the following if you are not comfortable with what a warrant is etc.

Investment trusts are as a general rule trading at historically wide discounts at that moment (dont take that literally because some arent but if you look over the past 5 or so years the current level of discounts to NAV make them very appealing assets.) The discount could of course get wider but personally I think some offer outstanding value if you are happy with the investment manager and the aims of the trust. Some investment trusts have even beenbuying bck their own shares which is not the greatest for liquidity purposes but it is good for the discounts as far as im concerned the more they buy back the better.

fees typically are low on ITs so if you combine that weith the discounts I prefer them to Unit trusts. Liquidity can be less of an issue with unit trusts but unless you are investing large sums of money relative to the NMS I do not see ITs having much of a problem. Personally I feel the discounts more than compensate especially in emerging market areas where the discounts can be as much as 30% possibly even higher. I think FIN is in the order of 20%. so if you like the aim of the trust, you are happy with the fund managers and you like the discount, then the gearing/leverage offered by warrants is a a gearing to the discount as well. The level of gearing means you are effectively getting more exposure to the market for your money in FINWs case I think it is over 3:1 but I stand to be corrected as I do not have the figures in front of me.

I currently own 2 warrants SJGW (Schroder Japan Growth)expiring in 2004 and AEEW (Aberdden Emerging Economies) expiring in 2008 (I think that is the expiry dates cant remember off top of my head).

The bid/offer spreadf on warrants do not in my mind make them suitable for short term traders.

Regards

Belsizepark

[biffer] 28/6/2000 17:19

Jerry, I dabble in warrants, you may also see Acol post occasionally on this subject as well.

Not really active in them at the moment, as I'm trying to concentrate on options, although I've still got 3 duffers in my portfolio that I'm hanging on to for sentimental reasons.

The biggest problem I find with warrants in the small NMS and the spreads.