Abrdn Property Income Share Discussion Threads

[nickrl] 22/3/2024 18:32

@paveyark wouldn't describe CREI as a fast buck organisation. Prior to covid they were regularly issuing shares at a slight premia not many others managed that. Also I like them as the inv mgrs run it with some external non execs unlike API where Baggley has basically had the rug pulled out from underneath him by BoD who have been got at like the EPIC lot.

Unlike UKCM which is dominated by Phoenix its a forgone conclusion API has a more diversified shareholder bas so outcome isn't so clear and still reckon a close run vote.

[essentialinvestor] 22/3/2024 17:18

Appreciate the reply, many thanks.

[pavey ark] 22/3/2024 17:08

EI, I liked the way the API management went about things and I don't get the same feel about CREI .......I detect an air of "a fast buck" but not based on hard facts or logic on my part.

I bought API through the refinance debacle and I was largely spurred on by the hysterical and illogical comment posted here.
The RCF has gone and the refinancing is not that big a deal now the company is in very good shape......I always expected this to happen.

I could see the vacancy rate coming down and I could see the RCF was being used for very specific purchases that I trusted the management to make.
The moorland purchase was an obvious example of thoughtful and considered long term planning but was simply used for cheap one line jibs by those desperate to make their quota of 10 or 15 meaningless posts a day.

I liked the way API was run......the assets have moved on .......I will stay long enough to get some of the obvious benefit as the CREI flog things off and I will laugh while people tell me how smart they are and what a great job they are doing.

[essentialinvestor] 22/3/2024 16:04

Needs to be viewed in the context of ABRDN job cuts and rhe RCF debacle.

[dr biotech] 22/3/2024 16:02

As MM mentions above, whats happened to make this trust suddenly unviable? Seems the board were happy to take their yearly payments to oversee our company, but either didn't see what was changing or just couldn't be bothered to communicate to us mere PIs what was going on.

Assuming the deal goes through, I'll be reducing my overall holding. I hold both API and CREI for income, and together they will make a holding larger than I'd feel comfortable with.

[essentialinvestor] 22/3/2024 15:56

Pavey, why the intention to sell a large part of a likely CREI holding ?

Thanks.

[pavey ark] 22/3/2024 15:52

No sensible person would assume that the worth of API's assets has even been tested.

There have been sales worth over £60m at over NAV figures and the moorland and the recently vacated industrial unit could /should achieve a price well over NAV figure.

The rest of the deal looks simple enough: take the assets that are quick and easy to sell (£100m+ total)and flog them off at above their rather harshly marked down values.

You now have 40% of your portfolio away at a 5% premium .....discount the remainder...some a little and some a lot.....you have achieved 90%+

It is not that I am over simplifying things but it rather looks to me that the board are making the case that suits THEM best.

I don't think anyone expects that a rapid selloff would generate full NAV for the portfolio but it shouldn't take a very long time and it should be possible to generate 90+%

But it looks like we are heading for CREI with their large number of smaller, higher risk properties .....at least they don't have the ABRDN board to "help" them.

As I said before I have a price set for my looming CREI shares and will sell a large proportion of my shares.

I sold out of API at the top in April 22 (pure luck as I wanted to buy elsewhere) bought back some at 52p&53p collected my dividends and sold at59p ....I think we all have "lucky" shares.

Since March 23 I have bought 8 times av 52p and 48p with dividends.

I am saying this because I now know API (and the management team).......this deal is a loss for the sector......the API portfolio was well bought and well managed and was always worth much more than the values given.

[spectoacc] 22/3/2024 10:45

All been curious hasn't it, but just continuing the theme of REITs not being worth anything like the NAV, as - in fairness - the market long since cottoned on to.

EPIC, CTPT, API, UKCM, LXI, CSH..

But having two interested ought to have got API shareholders a little more, surely. Instead, it just trashed CREI & SHED's s/p's.

[marketmuser] 22/3/2024 10:24

All rather messy isn't it.Not a peep from the Board as to why they oversaw a trust that they now deem non viable for continuation in current form.But the best outcome now is the Custodian offer is voted through and API holders eventually realise the value of the portfolio through an eventual rerate of Custodian once the dust settles.

[pavey ark] 22/3/2024 09:27

CWA1 yes I remember now...not great.

The attraction of idealing for me is the staff and being able to contact and interact with the guys buying and selling my shares.

Have set a target price for my first sale and will wind down from there.

Haven't bought more but my current holding has been built up over the last 12 months so in profit (with dividends).

I liked the API management not sure about this lot.

[mindthestash] 22/3/2024 09:20

API and Custodian down.
Shed up

All my other reits are gently re-rating upward
What a sh+show.

Is it too much to hope the big shareholders will see what damage this is doing to long term returns

[raj k] 22/3/2024 09:03

I too have bought some more API just now and have voted for the merger.

Lets hope it works out for all concerned!

[spittingbarrel] 22/3/2024 08:43

Raj - I bought some this morning at 51.99

[cwa1] 22/3/2024 08:32

Pavey Ark. If anything like me you will get a response from iDealing saying that voting is not a service they offer. However, for a price, was £50 per line, they will organise it for you

[spectoacc] 22/3/2024 08:29

The board recommendation ought to ensure the deal goes through - but depends how the major shareholders vote of course.

CREI's tanked 20p since announcing the bid, and that can't even be because it might raise the price now. Says it all.

API have been clear about wind-down not being a particularly favourable option, despite it keeping them all in their jobs for a few years longer.

[raj k] 22/3/2024 08:20

Is anyone buying more API at the moment?

Current Ask price on CREI is 68.4 p and values API at 53.4P if takeover goes through.

If bid goes through then getting a further discount at the moment on API. If it falls through API will wind down and hopefully there will be a lot of upside.

[skyship] 22/3/2024 08:11

AJBell provided voting for my SIPP

[raj k] 22/3/2024 08:06

Im with Interactive Investor and i have recieved the option to vote. Haven't done so yet as im totally confused about it.

[spectoacc] 22/3/2024 07:56

The nominee a/c's seem to be slowly getting better - HL & ii both notified and allowed voting.

[dr biotech] 22/3/2024 07:50

I’m with Halifax. Didn’t get a chance to vote on this or UKCM. Think that normal for them though.

[8w] 22/3/2024 07:47

Dr Biotech......HL

[pavey ark] 22/3/2024 07:43

Obviously a very good deal for CREI shareholders and looks like the rather duplicitous board will get their way.

The API holdings look a rather better risk than the CREI's and with API now having no RCF and a much smaller office holding most would be more than happy to hold API.

Dr Biotech: I have API shares with idealing , ii and Bestinvest and I have not been given the option to vote with any of them.
In the past I have voted through these nominee accounts......dark dealing here ??!!

[spectoacc] 22/3/2024 06:51

@strocketman - agree re the deal being a good one, isn't like it's a cash takeout at a discount, like EPIC was.

Poor for CREI shareholders though.

[dr biotech] 21/3/2024 22:53

Seems as a nominee holder I don’t get a chance to vote either way. Of those that have voted, who do you hold with?