Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
AB Dynamics LSE:ABDP London Ordinary Share GB00B9GQVG73 ORD 1P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  +0.00p +0.00% 767.00p 760.00p 774.00p - - - 0 06:33:37
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Industrial Engineering 24.6 4.5 20.8 36.8 147.22

AB Dynamics Share Discussion Threads

Showing 526 to 550 of 550 messages
Chat Pages: 22  21  20  19  18  17  16  15  14  13  12  11  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
17/11/2017
15:19
EC said "tell us why you are you fuming?" No prizes for guessing it's the share options cost
alter ego
17/11/2017
15:14
Well the tax man doesn't (until they are exercised, anyway).
effortless cool
17/11/2017
10:39
It's not exactly complicated - they have added the share-based payment charge back onto the post-tax profits. There is no need to deduct tax from the share-based payment charge, since it is not a real expense and would not have featured in their tax accounts in any case. So, share your revelation and tell us why you are you fuming?
effortless cool
17/11/2017
09:58
A revelation in their final accounts has got us fuming: they don’t even explain how they have arrived at the miraculous Eps figure of 28.28p, you have to do that little calculation yourself by hunting through the numbers.
investorschampion
17/11/2017
08:06
Large pipeline, new capacity in place. Might be realistic
qvg
17/11/2017
08:01
Wow - those are huge hikes in EPS!
effortless cool
17/11/2017
07:47
Panmure upgrade - EPS raised for 2018 - 27.8 to 38.2 and for 2019 35.4 to 47.5p. Price target of 1030p
glaws2
16/11/2017
18:14
Bit academic but I think I picked it up from the 3/10 ts - impact on revenue but 'no consequential impact on pbt'. Thanks EC for the outline on note 26 - hadn't picked up on that.
alphabeta4
16/11/2017
13:19
I like companies that treat their employees as partners, usually leads to greater stability and success in the long term. The kind of specialist work that ABDP does can only benefit from retaining expert staff.
tratante
16/11/2017
10:24
Albie, You raise a good point regarding the options. The biggest "loser" from the issue was Anthony Best, who was Executive Chairman at the time. His family interests own over 30% of the equity and he took no share of the options. In other words, the person who took the decision to issue the options is closer than anyone to the business and the people, and stands to lose more than anyone else through overgenerous remuneration of staff. He clearly saw value in rewarding his team in this way, and the subsequent performance of the business has done nothing to suggest he got this wrong.
effortless cool
16/11/2017
10:18
Alphabeta4, Actually, the full results report, which is now available on the website, gives a full breakdown of the IFRS 15 impact under Note 26. It reduced revenue by £1.3m and pre-tax profit by £0.3m, with the other £1m of "missing" revenue going into inventories. In summary, revenues were 5% higher and earnings were 6% higher than reported had IFRS 15 not been adopted.
effortless cool
16/11/2017
09:28
Like Alphabet, I am no accountant - ask my accountant! However my view of the options is more in line with the second half of jg's post above. I believe an engaged and motivated workforce is worth the money, far and above any bottom line. Back in the 1970's when Sainsbury's first floated they were a paternalistic company under John Sainsbury. Workers were encouraged to become shareholders and as a result the company grew and grew. There was a trust and bond between management and workforce. When in the 80's the accountants took over and much of that paternalism was destroyed, the company started to suffer as a direct result. In this phase of a company growing in a highly specialised area, having employees sharing in the fruits of their specialism keeps them not only motivated but away from their competitors. Good luck all.
albie two shoes
16/11/2017
08:49
Hi EC I don't profess to be a chartered accountant but I'm sure within their two recent RNS statements (either the post year update or the finals) I read it making reference to it reducing revenue by £1m but with no impact on EPS. Just working on something but will try to dig it out later.
alphabeta4
15/11/2017
20:43
jg, No, I am not overlooking anything. The value of your shares is reduced by the dilution and increased by the cash paid when the options are exercised. These options are exercisable at 395p per share and the weighted fair value (based on Black-Scholes)of each option at the date of issue was 197.17p. That gives rise to an notional "cost" of £2.6m for the options (1,337,122 options x 197.19p fair value), of which about £1.7m has already gone through the income statement. As stated, this is just a notional estimate of the value of the options. The charge made on the income statement is credited back to retained earnings in its entirety. The real economic cost is determined by the gap between the true underlying value of the shares (or ones estimate of it, in practice), including the value of the cash raised from exercising the options, and the exercise price of the options. Thus, the adverse effect of the dilution from the options increases the cheaper the exercise price. We do agree that the issue of these options was a negative. However, at least they were unusually democratic about it, with all staff benefitting, it is not just a get rich(er) quick scheme for the directors.
effortless cool
15/11/2017
18:38
Hi Mr Cool there are two impacts: first, as you note, the dilution (our pie is being shared among more shares, after the options are exercised). Second, which you seem to overlook, the price paid by the new holders. They got their options on favourable terms - the disclosure is not full enough to see how many options and how generous the terms are. But the cost which GAAP requires the company to expense in the P&L is an estimate of that cost. It is a very significant increase on the cost last year. So either a lot more options, or much more generous terms, or a mix of both. (we'll know more from the annual report). By adjusting for this cost, ABDP Board/mgmt try to ignore that. But as an existing shareholder not getting such a sweet deal, I wear the cost: the value of my stake is reduced for the generous issues terms (and the dilution). I fully accept that happy and motivated employees are a v. good thing, and esp. for a small smart company like ABDP. The challenge is how you do this at a reasonable cost. BVXP seem to have been able to achieve it at remarkably low employee cost. ABDP seem to have found an expensive way of doing so. It seems to be an ongoing feature of their employee remuneration policy. from memory, it cost 300k last year, and 1.3m this year! the generous option/rem policy was the biggest negative in last year's result for me, and this year it is worse. GLAH
jg88721
15/11/2017
16:16
I'm updating my model now, but it will take a couple of days to complete. I was pleased with the results, which were ahead of my expectations except with regard to net cash. Are you able to shed any more light on the impact of IFRS 15. The results say that £1m of revenue was deferred. The segmental analysis would suggest that this deferral related to revenue form construction contracts, rather than revenue from sale of goods. Would this make sense in the context of IFRS 15? Also, you seem to suggest that revenue was £1m lower than it would have been otherwise, with no impact on profits? If that is so, what would have been the counter-entries in the accounts to take contribution of that £1m of revenue out of profits?
effortless cool
15/11/2017
16:01
What's people's general thoughts around these results? Mine are they're good but with a background of a lot to live up to give the recent c25% share price rise. Morningstar had an average eps estimate of 25.4p for 2017 and revenue of £24m. On this basis the £24.6m and 28.28p would look a decent beat if calculated on same basis. This does have to be factored against Cantor's 675p though which has clearly been exceeded. Personally I'm more focused on the 28.28p as the IFRS change lopped £1m off the revenue without an impact on profit so it could be argued the revenue grew around 6% ahead of forecasts. I've got a couple of crude calculations which make a couple of tweaks to this, they're quite hard to explain briefly but I come out with targets of £7.21 or £7.29. IMHO these represent good long term value around here. I've got eps running at 25%pa and would expect analysts to adjust forward eps to a minimum of 31.7p+ (which is below mine) for a cautious cash adjusted forward of 21.4 based on £7.30 and a PEG well under 1.
alphabeta4
15/11/2017
12:38
I see, thanks.
tratante
15/11/2017
11:18
tratante I expect jg was referring to the paragraph in the final results issued today. CEO statement "Adjusted profit before tax increased by over 25% to £5.9m (2016: £4.7m) and is adjusted to exclude a £1.5m (2016: £0.3m) non-cash charge made in respect of share based payments, which provides a more accurate reflection of the underlying performance of the business. Profit before tax increased from £4.45m to £4.47m." Linhur
linhur
15/11/2017
10:39
jg, I have a somewhat different view. Yes, the options costs are real, but the charge for them made against the income statement is most certainly not real, and is actually added back into retained earnings on the balance sheet. The real cost of the options is the dilution and, thus, the adjusted diluted earnings per share (adjusting profits by adding back the share-based payment costs and adjusting number of shares by adding on the shares from the options) is an appropriate valuation metric. You should also take credit for the cash raised on exercise of the options. The adjusted diluted EPS went up 22.5%.
effortless cool
15/11/2017
10:09
jg. Not sure I understand, isn't increase in profits and div, growth? Could you amplify your comment? Thx
tratante
15/11/2017
08:33
hhmmm the company can crow all it likes about adjusted earnings growth, but the options costs are real ! factor them in and there is no growth. the company has great technology, but unless it can grow earnings and returns to the benefit of shareholders its not a great investment. I'm a holder, but not a happy one!
jg88721
14/11/2017
14:20
There is a recording of the AB Dynamics presentation at ShareSoc Growth Company Seminar, 11th October 2017 available here: hTTps://www.sharesoc.org/events/recordings/
sharesoc
13/11/2017
10:07
Tim Rogers presentation at October ShareSoc Http://www.piworld.co.uk/2017/11/13/ab-dynamics-abdp-presentation-at-sharesoc-growth-seminar-october-2017/ c 35 mins Great overview of the company, and what they do. Video: track testing and lab testing – 00:44 Track testing – 01:45 Advanced Vehicle Driving Simulator – 02:19 ABDP The business – 04:22 What ABDP do – 04:55 What we really do IP – 05:39 Our capabilities – 06:35 Our products – 07:05 Market size – 08:27 Our customers – 09:00 Geographical split – 10:06 Story of growth – 12:25 On-going growth drivers – 13:45 The new facility – 17:16 Q&A – 18:00 What’s the effect of Brexit? – 18:03 Is there a market to offer testing as a service? – 19:25 Is there a market outside of auto? – 21:13 Tim Roger’s departure – 22:40 Who are the largest shareholders? – 24:45 Are Tesler a client? – 26:36 Do you see yourself moving from testing before sales to testing after sales? – 27:50 Employee share scheme – 28:30 Competitors – 30:35 The new factory, headway to grow – 32:00 Will the new factory save costs? – 33:25 CAPEX – 34:09
tomps2
12/11/2017
10:40
hTTp://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/investing/article-5073825/MIDAS-SHARE-TIPS-UPDATE-1-AB-Dynamics.html
jurgenklopp
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