Zigup Share Discussion Threads

[swiss paul] 24/12/2024 18:27

yes I did think about that. I am retaining it on my watch list

[alotto] 24/12/2024 15:34

It would be great if you were to put it back in zigup and make it back to 435

[swiss paul] 24/12/2024 14:21

434.11 So my loss was approx 25%.

Go WDWRD for 128.32p now being sold 208.00 - gain of 40+%

[alotto] 24/12/2024 12:13

Swiss, how much did you pay for zigup?

[swiss paul] 24/12/2024 11:33

Losses made up. I put money into Winward - which recived a bid today.
Happy 😀

[rmillaree] 22/12/2024 18:33

need to find the split between battery and hydrocarbon engines as appears that the resale value of EV cars is falling much faster than expected

I would suggest that EV is minor part of their buisiness - they will also know the score ref electric vehicle depreciation too - so i doubt they would be taking on any material risk here. Thats a presumption on my part - probably quite a good question to direct towards teh company for them to confirm or deny. If my presumption is correct i would like to think they would confirm similar when asked.

Note they will have good resale value data on their entire fleet - so i would expect that this would something they would always have in hand and depeciate appropriately.

I am surprised anyone is surprised that the first batch of initial mass leased/on tick ev's have poor resale value. the group of orginal purchasers was pretty niche and the market for buyers of second hand vehciels is probably going to be pretty niche too.

[pugugly] 22/12/2024 17:46

While it may be in the accounts somewhere need to find the split between battery and hydrocarbon engines as appears that the resale value of EV cars is falling much faster than expected. Potential impact on bottom line?

[rmillaree] 22/12/2024 17:07

what is strange here is that where we are now was flagged up months ago - or probably more correctly speaking in prior years when the change in derpeciation policy was made that would negatively impact future earnings at that time -plus it was 100.00% obvious used van prices would normalise too.

seems odd that people would hang around for the numbers to be rubber stamped then sell out at the low point now rather than when they knew what was coming and the shareprice was higher.

Hey ho nowt stranger than folk - note the current headwinds are all pretty much factored into the numbers going forward now so hopefully they can return to growth in earnings in either 2027 or if they can outperfom current estimates for 2026 - per stockopedia estimates look like they have been revised up £4 million for 2026 in the last 30 days - dont know if that is correct or not but either way i see the overall finances here as being sound.

[riverman77] 22/12/2024 16:17

Well I've just bought some - strange that shares seem to be the only thing people sell when they're being offered at a big discount! Results looked pretty good in my view - earnings down YoY but this was due to known one-off factors. Underlying performance looks pretty good and trading on 6x PE and discount to tangible net assets.

[rcturner2] 17/12/2024 10:32

I am back in today at 320p.

[zho] 13/12/2024 10:17

>>He said he did not understand the sharp drop in EBITDA>>

I don't think he did say that. What he did say was that he didn't understand the sharp drop in the share price, which he didn't see as being justified.

[eigthwonder] 13/12/2024 10:07

Yields just about 8% here. For a company which isn't actually broken and is increasing dividends, that interesting. Debt is high but secured on assets, so I am OK with that.

[deanowls] 13/12/2024 05:18

Watch the investor meet presentation. It explains everything there.

[alotto] 13/12/2024 04:22

The dude didn't convince me. He said he did not understand the sharp drop in EBITDA, nor an explanation was provided by zigup by his saying.
Yet he intends to buy the shares next week...

[skinny] 12/12/2024 11:22

You can add the start time to the link :-

[zho] 12/12/2024 11:02

.... and from 42.40 at

[zho] 05/12/2024 08:37

Paul Scott had a quick look at the results yesterday, at:

[fenners66] 04/12/2024 23:05

Seems the market did not buy the numbers either.

As I said earlier though the dividend yield is respectable.

As for the no mark who came on this board a few years ago claiming to be in the car rental business and saying that Zigup were sat on a £billion profit on vehicle stocks that they were not declaring ....well takes all sorts even the completely ignorant

[fenners66] 04/12/2024 23:02

rmillaree >

"Either they are going to a model where they are paid in advance and they never pay what the owe, or that working capital movement is not going to be repeated.

thats complete nonsense - they are reinvesting all their funds in new flet to drive future business. If people cant see the simplicity of the business model here where half the fleet is paid for and half on reasonable finance they should upsticks and go someowhere else - the niumbers to me are crytsal clear."


Once again you have proven , by choosing to highlight that comment first - that sarcasm does not work on advfn even when you think that someone may know enough about a subject.

I see you picked up on the working capital movement point I made in a later post.

So I had better put this in simple terms

I don't believe that "Receivables down by £60m and Trade Payables up by £57m" is repeatable.
Fine they have managed Working capital better this year - why not in the past ? But they did not "create" the cash flow this year from managing the business better , they collected their debts and delayed paying their creditors. Would not be surprised if this reverses in future, or indeed if it was a quirk of "window dressing " at the period end.

I have worked in a business with negative working capital - I know it can be done and how it's done and NO I don't see Zigup becoming one.

[rmillaree] 04/12/2024 18:31

thats fine disco we just go from the info we have to not everything is always reliable - the company has been buying back shares so thats another attraction to me here there was 250 mill shares in issue a couple of years back an they have done a decent job getting that down to 226 mill. suits me down to the ground if the shareprice remains depressed and they are able to do more buybacks at very modest earnings multiples.

They do need to deliver though -clearly the market today is looking at the company as being one delivering less going forward i am normally cautious with stuff but i have seen nothing here that make me think mangement wont deliver decent returns from the enhanced fleet that they have - soemtimes its backwards to go forwards in life.

[disc0dave46] 04/12/2024 18:11

rm Where my 331p NTAV came from:Net Assets £1041Less Goodwill £116mLess other intangible assets £103mNTA £821mShares in issue 246.1m (from ADVFN)NTAV 333p (sorry my error not 331p).Stocko has 225.8m shares in issue so yes NTAV is as stated 364p, my apologies should have double checked the source data for shares in issue.

[rmillaree] 04/12/2024 17:19

Over the last 5 years or so it’s only achieved a peak average rating of 14x and that was during the covid / post covid boom for them. Don’t see it hitting double figures in the medium term given declining forecasts.

i dont disagree as per last post - it may need us to get into next year with regard to upswring for headwinds to subside. there are genuine reasons why profits are lower though - so that masks teh factv they are still doing deals increasing fleet size and running buisness in competent fashion. Yes they cant dictae how busy claims is and ref bumper disposal profits that was always an abonormal situation.

Personally i would say 12 * is currently fair price from my point of view as i understand why profits are lower - i am well aware this share hasnt commanded premium price and may bumble along on 8 * earnings until the numbers look better at face value. I am happy taking the divi.

"IMO their debt is too high for me at nearly 5 times their forecast PBT (I prefer less than 3x)

It might be for you but it aint for me - nearly 50% os their fleet value is paid for - so they have unlimited available resources if they need - they could sell off fleet and pay down debt in a heartbeat. If debt was rising as a % of the fleet value that would be an issue but it aint it dropped despite them increasing fleet value by £200 mill in 12 months. they may have been canny with working capital.


If you take £20k van they are paying £400 pa on that on finance costs - so that works out at £33 per month - they will probably make that back in 1-3 days depending on the kind of deal they have. So not sure how anyone can say that the debt is an issue - to me its clearly not at these levels.


Can’t keep throwing cash at fleet when profits and earnings have been falling for the past 2 years.

well the reasons for falling profits are two fold - they had bumper used value prices that was never going to last - so you are looking at period where profits were hugely inflated by supply constraints. They also changed depreciatiin policy in 2023 so that that flattered 2023 and 2024 numbers by £50 million at the expense of 2025 and 2026 numbers - not sure they wanted to go down that route but they had to due the fact their vehicles were worth more.

Look back pre covid and resultys were never as good as they are expecving to do this year and next - note we are talking about £100 mill profit here plus both years - to me with excellent cover on fleet thats the only real number that matters to me as its real and dropping through to bottom line increasing net asset value.
Note if they are signing new deals withn commercial customers thats upfront investment and you need to have the fleet ready to go - so it kinds makes sense that theer is a lag before the profits flow in.

Hey ho thats just my take everyone else can be doom and gloom if they want to - being frank i see this stock as being pretty defensive.

Perhaps other are right that they are having to work harder to make soem profit - its kinda tough for many business - i like the fact they have pre warned ref reductions and then hit what they promised - even with everything the current powers that be throw at them in the budget.

[riverman77] 04/12/2024 17:18

Discount to net tangible assets and generating a return on capital of 13% (in a fairly soft year). Looks pretty good value to me. The decline in earnings versus last year looks to be due to a couple of one-off factors rather than evidence of a downward trend. Normalisation of disposal profits was already known about. The other factor was a quiet summer in the claims business, but profits here are always a bit lumpy and they say market has already picked up. The investment in new vehicles should also drive some earnings growth next year.

[deadly] 04/12/2024 17:14

"The only thing that matters is what the market thinks."

...and the market often doesn't know what it thinks; look at TET or DNE today.