Wasps 22 Discussion Threads

[barondene] 29/6/2022 20:32

I could not understand why no one wanted to do this sooner

Unless there is a dominant group who did not want information released

[fastcat99] 29/6/2022 20:09

3 currently valid names from that Company House link

Edmond Leedham, described there as Company Secretary, appointed Jan 2018 - Linked-in has him as Senior Vice President and Chief Counsel - so with legal credentials /responsibilities
hxxps://www.linkedin.com/in/edmond-leedham-ab849317/
[e-mail]

Tom Cubitt is Director, appointed in 2010, declared role "Bank Officer"

Josephine Murray is a director appointed in May 2010; her occupation is simply Banker.

I emailed as below, apparently successfully (Delivery to these recipients or groups is complete, but no delivery notification was sent by the destination server)

[e-mail] ([e-mail])

[e-mail] ([e-mail])

[e-mail] ([e-mail])

[e-mail] ([e-mail])

Subject: Wasps 6.5% Bond (13 May 2022 - delisted from London Stock Exchange)

[barondene] 29/6/2022 18:10

@graham8 Forget what the accounts say as value. The Arena is being used as security for a loan. No Mortgagor will advance monies on the basis you state - they will reduce their lending to a figure minus any serious dilaps. If they have to force sell they do not want to be in a position where they have to repair or take a lower amount from a potential purchase

[barondene] 29/6/2022 17:51

Google him and US BANK TRUSTEES

[fastcat99] 29/6/2022 17:45

Has anyone yet contacted the Trustee ?

I would like to know where barondene got the name Tom Cubitt (posted 20 June) and what his position at US Bank Trust is.

[carmic] 29/6/2022 17:31

Like all other bond holders, this is worrying without any clear way of knowing how we can learn anything tangible.
I’ve tried (like others) sending emails, but not even an acknowledgment.
Happy to receive any practical suggestions.

[fastcat99] 29/6/2022 17:19

Given that our security has been delisted (I repeat, without informing us - either directly or via the Trustees), we don't know even HOW/WHERE we are meant to behold what dandigirl so quaintly calls 'the big reveal' !

How about lots of us phoning the Trustee at midday ?!

[grahamg8] 29/6/2022 16:55

The fallout would be wider. Wasps Holdings and Arena would also be insolvent if the bonds aren't repaid, as they are guarantors. Plenty of nonsense being spouted about the stadium valuation. When you value something you value it in an as seen state, ie the value takes into account rectification works. You don't deduct them afterwards.

[bondholder] 28/6/2022 19:50

Sadly not I fear

[jimpy6365] 28/6/2022 15:36

Will we be breathing a sigh of relief on Thursday?

[dandigirl] 21/6/2022 09:27

Not at this time given that the big reveal is next week. Hardly time for a letter to arrive.

[barondene] 20/6/2022 18:37

Worth a try?

U.s. Bank Trustees Limited
125 Old Broad Street
EC2N 1AR London
Greater London England
020 7367 5950

Tom Cubitt

Contacts
U.S. Bank Global Corporate Trust, 125 Old Broad Street, London, EC2N 1AR, United Kingdom
44 02073302000
44 02073652577

[dandigirl] 20/6/2022 18:30

Am broadly with L2S.

fastcat: dream on regarding a consent payment. Be happy if you receive full repayment plus interest next week. And thanks for the weird rant. That'll help get it out your system.

As regards the BBC journo, I don't think you know the meanings of patronising and disingenuous. My comments were meant and I don't pretend to know more than anyone else. I try to follow the facts, not claims and assertions made by others without substantiation. By the way, I did email him and he didn't so much as bother to reply. So he set a hare running here and didn't follow through, did you Mr Gilbert?

barondene: I notice the change from default to breach. Yes, there is a breach but there isn't a default until the Trustee says so. And the Trustee would respond to you that he was of the opinion that the obligation was capable of being remedied having been informed that repayment was scheduled by the end of June. Besides, a copy of the Trust Deed and perhaps other documentation would be needed to be more precise as to what the Trustee is required to do and by when.

[barondene] 20/6/2022 11:27

To be clear: There HAS been a breach under the terms of the prospectus and it remains

The Trustee has exercised some discretion not to take any action

These are two distinct events

If the Bond Settlement does happen on June 30 it will not take away the fact there was a breach

If it does not happen on that date the Trustee should be held to account as to why he did not act at May 13 ( not June 30 )

[l2s] 20/6/2022 10:57

"Full redemption of the Bonds will now require MORE than 100% repayment of principal plus just a few days of outstanding interest - there should be a consent payment, as in January 2018" may be a justifiable belief but I'm not sure that it has any legal (or even moral) standing.
As to the "125 Broad Street" information, Companies House data provides details of the 2 Directors and a Secretary but a view of the last accounts also records the fact that "the company did not have any employees" so I'm not sure where that gets us!

[fastcat99] 20/6/2022 10:33

Yes but "all breakages must be paid for"

Full redemption of the Bonds will now require MORE than 100% repayment of principal plus just a few days of outstanding interest - there should be a consent payment, as in January 2018

My problem with 125 Broad St is both that this was the SAME address quoted in the 2020 documents for Elavon Financial Services (the Principal Paying Agent - whatever that means !) AND that we have no NAME there, no EMAIL address, no phone number (other than the European VP I quoted earlier)
And I did NOT get any further guidance from Wasps, or Tulchangroup (who did not recognise Elizabeth Snow!!)

@dandigirl - I'm glad you're abandoning your normal "Kipling's Three Monkeys" posture! but according to WHAT "plan"?!
This is a company where accountants have publicly resigned, extraordinary subsidies from Premiership and DCMS have disappeared into a black hole, an extremely complicated institutional architecture has been shaken, first with our consent by the 2020 Solicitation, then unaccountably in crisis since 13 May, AND the investment instrument has been FUNDAMENTALLY changed by delisting: (etc, etc those points refer just to "our own house")
- THEN come tortuous relations with CCFC, CBS, CCC and other public authorities
(I found last week's comments about the BBC investigation both patronising and quite disingenuous)

[l2s] 20/6/2022 10:30

Just so that we are still all singing from the same hymn sheet may I repeat what was said in the now infamous RNS - "The Bonds' final Maturity Date is set to occur on 13 May 2022 and in connection with the proposed refinancing, the redemption of the Bonds at their nominal amount will be delayed pending completion of the refinancing. U.S. Bank Trustees Limited (the "Trustee") has also been notified of this delay and the Issuer expects to complete the refinancing on or before 30 June 2022".
Call me a hopeless optimist if you like but the Trustees were advised of the delay and, until 30 June, we have no reason to suppose that the bonds will not be repaid.

[dandigirl] 20/6/2022 10:20

barondene: there isn't a default until the Trustee says so and so far there is no evidence that default has been called.

Moreover, the clause also allows the Trustee some discretion - "if in the opinion of the Trustee, etc...."

[barondene] 20/6/2022 09:25

There still has been a breach - between now and then it is open to Bondholders and the Freeholder to take action - or at least file a warning notice

[dandigirl] 20/6/2022 09:09

But, if all goes to plan, repayment should be made next week.

[dandigirl] 20/6/2022 08:34

barondene: ""Therefore Bondholders should be asking the Trustee what action he is taking and what assurances has he received to delay taking remedial steps against all parties concerned

The least that should be happening is the guarantors being put on notice of the breach.""

I agree.

[barondene] 20/6/2022 08:26

@fastcat The Trustee details are at the end of the Prospectus

US BANK TRUSTEES LIMITED
5th Floor
125 Old Bond Street
London
EC2N 1AR


hxxps://www.thegazette.co.uk/company/02379632

[fastcat99] 19/6/2022 19:20

PS correction
- NO KSE ORB retail bond had yet defaulted - "I am sure everyone involved will seek to honour and preserve this record in respect of WAS1, Wasps 6.5%"

[fastcat99] 19/6/2022 19:17

@barondene this is EXACTLY what I have been saying in this forum,
- can we assemble a how to guide for everyone's benefit?

I wrote to Vaughan twice - once immediately after the Notice came out on RNS, another just 10 days ago (on the specific issue of alleged Notice of Default, and how/whom to contact at US Bank Trust - both without any sort of reply.

My first letter picked up 10 points
- Wasps commitment to provide further updates 'as appropriate'
- the brutal timing of the RNS announcement
- 'delicate ambiguities' in description of progress on refinancing and of the next steps
- "only vague allusion to discussions with Trustee"
- equivocation about timing of outstanding interest payments (look again at the dreadful grammar there, given the date and hour of publication - was this just illiterate, or willfully confusing ?!)
- no assurance of Wasps Finance ability to meet its obligations
- on LSE ORB bond has ever defaulted
- WE APPEAR to be in DE FACTO default NOW
- what is the legal basis for his current actions & omissions? eg how has he obtained Guarantors' approval?
- if part of the refinancing will depend on bondholders completing the equivalent of yet another Consent process, this time retrospective, IT SURELY SHOULD NOT BE ASSUMED TO COME WITHOUT COST.

Points 5/6 have been 'answered' (so far) by the May 2022 coupon
Point 7/8 by a real slap in the face: Wasps Finance THEMSELVES requested the delisting
Point 10 means - all breakages must be paid for :)

I haven't found any better wsy of contacting the Trustee than the email address (and office phone number) of the senior Vice President of US Bancorp, responsible for European Trustee Solutions. Clearly not hitting the nail on the head