Wasps 22 Discussion Threads

[dandigirl] 26/5/2022 15:32

Have faith girls and boys.
IMV interest would not have been paid if Mr R was going to walk away from this.
Moreover, interest has been paid when times were much worse than they are now.
Be patient.

[bondholder] 26/5/2022 15:12

The trustees on behalf of bondholders have a first mortgage recorded at the land registry securing outstanding amounts due. An application for summary judgment/ possession wouldn't take very long to obtain.

[bondholder] 26/5/2022 14:40

Agree especially with the last bit. Failing that CCFC are talking about building a new stadium in the future. At 35m this is a gift by comparison.

[jonnyhatesrap] 25/5/2022 23:07

Let’s be clear on a few points. The bonds are now in default and default interest is payable. Failure to pay principal on maturity is an event of default under the Conditions of the bonds. The Trustee can enforce security in its discretion without 25% bondholder instruction but is unlikely to do so where a refinance is said to be imminent. In deciding whether to sell the stadium, the Trustee can get an alternative use valuation (ie not as a stadium) but continuing use as a stadium and entertainment venue will obviously attract a higher price. The security is over a 250 year leasehold interest (peppercorn rent), so as good as a freehold interest. But it’s the Trustee’s responsibility to consider all options and achieve a reasonable outcome for bondholders. The owners of Wasps Holdings aren’t going to just watch and see their equity in the business/arena wiped out.

[bondinvestor1] 25/5/2022 22:49

When the end of June arrives I expect a further announcement of more time being needed. The published financials indicate that Wasps is not a good candidate for refinance. Given the lengthy time taken for enforcement of the security the trustee should commence legal action immediately. This can always be suspended if the bonds are repaid. Unless an action is started holders run the risk of the matter dragging on for years.

The announcement by the company makes it look as though the maturity date is something of a surprise. They have had years to consider the repayment. My conclusion is that a default is pending & the announcement of a reported refinance being deferred is no more than a delaying tactic.

[bondinvestor1] 25/5/2022 22:48

When the end of June arrives I expect a further announcement of more time being needed. The published financials indicate that Wasps is not a good candidate for refinance. Given the lengthy time taken for enforcement of the security the trustee should commence legal action immediately. This can always be suspended if the bonds are repaid. Unless an action is started holders run the risk of the matter dragging on for years.

The announcement by the company makes it look as though the maturity date is something of a surprise. They have had years to consider the repayment. My conclusion is that a default is pending & the announcement of a reported refinance being deferred is no more than a delaying tactic.

[barondene] 24/5/2022 15:14

The rent from CCFC does not reach 6 figures and that is gross - ie before all expenditures

Not sure what WASPs rugby pay or even if they are - but crowds of <8k will not generate much and as with CCFC they still have to provide all the facilities

I understand the casino is not a big earner - dont know about hotel.

They also have a large liability around a franchise deal with Delaware North for catering and hospitality plus there was still some due to Compass

As to changing use that would be a political nightmare for CCC as EU money involved and it would not be a quick fix

[135791113] 24/5/2022 13:49

I would suggest that with duel income streams on the pitch (wasps and CCFC), as well as the hotel, casino, and land, it should be worth that even if it was a forced sale. The land alone should be worth at least half of that as a brown-field site with almost guaranteed planning for whatever a developer wants to put there.

Not my area of expertise, at all, but just looking around at what other parcels of land are worth, £35m isn't a great deal for a housing developer.

[barondene] 24/5/2022 13:20

135791113 - On what basis do you say the stadium is worth >£35m?

Ignore the WASPS acounts figure that is clearly an "in use" valuation based on WASPS internal cash flow forecasts. ALso the ultmate Headlease holder has not filed accounts

You are looking at almost a forced sale mortgage valuation for security purposes. Start discounting from there

[135791113] 24/5/2022 13:12

The refinance IR is unimportant to us as bondholders. Wasps have a duty to repay the bond by whatever means possible, and the stadium is worth considerably more than the £35m outstanding bond. I have no doubt that someone will offer the finance to repay the bond, even if Wasps might not be happy with the rates required, the alternative is to go bust and hand the stadium over the the bondholders.

[cc2014] 24/5/2022 12:56

On the basis that Arena Coventry Limited accounts are 2 months overdue at Companies House and they are one of the Guarantors mentioned in the recent RNS, what chance would you give that a syndicate led by HSBC would be willing to lend £1 to Wasps never mind £35m noting of course the stadia does exist and would be security.

And if they were willing to lend the £35m what sort of interest rate would they be looking for?

Unless those accounts get filed soon and are reasonably clean I'd say the syndicate loan will fall through.

[barondene] 24/5/2022 12:23

bsharman3 - I dont think that will happen. If it was "soon" I would have expected more positive noises from WASPs

[barondene] 24/5/2022 12:16

Refinance quick - if at all ? Their income cover is not great plus they have other debt than the Bonds

No one would rebuild a stadium at that location for £200m at this time

Also at £35m CCFC would be better sticking to the Warwick plan. The rumoured dilaps and update costs are in the £20m range

[bondholder] 24/5/2022 12:01

Refinance won't be quick.Ultimately the stadium complex has a rebuild cost approaching 200 million. Someone (CCFC?)will pay 35m to get control if Wasps default on the bond.

[bsharman3] 24/5/2022 11:42

I got my coupon in ii but they have also reduced the total value to zero... Hoping to get the capital in the account soon???

[barondene] 24/5/2022 11:27

Just look at it, that anything you get from now - is a bobus !

[bondholder] 24/5/2022 11:08

Spoilt my muesli :( lol

[barondene] 24/5/2022 10:52

Does not give bondholders a lot of confidence though to see portfolio balnce reduced?

[ozzie_dog] 24/5/2022 10:33

I rang HL this morning, they said its normal to do that when the bond can't be traded anymore. But we might have to wait a while to see the money, because he seemed to indicate that it was not done because the money is going to be necessarily paid sooner than expected.

[bondholder] 24/5/2022 08:00

HL have reduced the value of the bond to zero in the portfolio.

[barondene] 23/5/2022 21:47

I am surprised no one has picked up the other breaches. The accounts for Arena Coventry, ACL 2006 and IEC are heading for 2 months overdue.

[bondholder] 18/5/2022 11:22

Haha you beat me to it !

[bondholder] 18/5/2022 11:22

HL account just received interest !

[ajjay] 18/5/2022 11:18

Interest arrived into Hargreaves acct 11.00am