Wt Wner Usd Discussion Threads

[scburbs] 26/10/2009 16:15

My shorts on WNER are all closed now as risk is to the upside given recovering property values and the leverage that WNER is carrying.

Nice to get out with a reasonable profit given the massive profits being made on the positions that this was hedging.

[ydderf] 16/10/2009 06:05

Because of the multiplyer effect of heavy gearing I reckon NAV after sales in the auction room at this weeks prices could be antyhing from 20p-90p.

As with all property companies the real. i.e todays prices of their assets takes about 6 months to be reflected in the accounts, which is why cheap bids have been succeeding - see TAP and DLD for example

That is the main danger here imho

[randolph and mortimer] 14/10/2009 18:25

Well, CAL and QED survived, the latter without dilution. And Grainger which was also technically under water.

[gdasinv2] 12/10/2009 11:47

Very undervalued...If you see IPI property trust 10 times since this year, In parellel this is very undervalued( too even agr) . ANY suggestion any 1?

[scburbs] 12/10/2009 11:31

YdderF,

Did you see anything on the terms of the subscription. The over-subscription suggests it may have been generous, i.e. a high coupon and then conversion at a significant discount to NAV.

I assume that WNER did not participate so this new issue will be diluting them.

[ydderf] 12/10/2009 11:01

Looks like Warners turn at last.........the early birds paid a maximum 40p last week, but as its only the beginning, 50, or 60p might also be cheap.

If you consider that the over over-subscription of the refinancing of the Ashtenne fund is a sign of things to come.............

[hungry wolf] 20/9/2009 00:34

55 PROPERTIES VALUED @ 267.5 MILLION
INCOME OF 19.1 MILLION

an eastern european would get 267 million out of just ten properties by simply running them as brothels, then again it is possible that they are already doing so but not declaring it.


nice faLL FROM £ 8.00 so at some point should break.

i'll keep a eye on this & DUPD

[scburbs] 18/9/2009 11:27

Very uninspiring AGM announcement. Progress seems pretty slow on the refinancing.

[scburbs] 17/9/2009 10:11

I am still short WNER, I have banked some profits but have retained a position that has now moved back to breakeven.

Given I am massively long the sector I am happy to let it run as a hedge to positions that should outperform WNER.

[nickcduk] 17/9/2009 09:47

Closed my short out today for a loss. Property sector has gone nuts and WNER more than likely going to get support to trade its way out of its mess. May get news tomorrow at the AGM. Better risk reward plays out there though.

[scruffydave] 17/9/2009 09:42

looking very attractive

[scburbs] 08/9/2009 08:24

The price that HSTN paid for the Trefick stake implies a value of around 28p per share for WNER. It would perhaps be difficult for HSTN to pay a lot more than that for WNER without annoying Jack Petchey.

[scburbs] 07/9/2009 22:22

"It is quite possible that Warner will go the same way as Brixton and accept a 'white knight' bid – ironically from the two men whose company it bought in 2005.

Ian Watson and Morgan Jones, who set up Hansteen after selling Ashtenne to Warner for £168m four years ago, last Friday cunningly bought an 18.5% stake in Warner. They took ownership of Jack Petchey's Warner shares by giving him 3.3m Hansteen shares in exchange. The value of both shareholdings is around £2.9m.

Watson and Jones are in a fantastic position to get their hands on some good real estate, as Warner is in such a weak position.

As industrial specialists, Watson and Jones are only interested in Warner's industrial assets, which account for £1bn of its £1.9bn of assets under management. These are held in the £801m Ashtenne Industrial Fund, which comprises assets that Warner took on when they acquired Ashtenne, and the £197m Radial Distribution Fund.

They are not interested in Warner's retail assets, held in the £167m Agora Shopping Centres joint venture and the £87m Agora Max Shopping Centres joint venture, nor its office assets, held in the £72m Greater London Offices joint venture and the £276m Apia Regional Office Fund, nor its £268m of wholly owned assets.

To get their hands on the two industrial funds, Watson and Jones could make an offer for Warner and, if successful, quickly sell the office and retail funds and the wholly owned portfolio. That might prove problematic, since more than 40% of Warner is owned by the Warner family, headed by the company's chairman and chief executive Philip Warner. The family might be unwilling to sell their shares at a rock-bottom price.

Alternatively, Watson and Jones could try and take over the management of the two industrial funds by striking a deal with Warner and its three banks, the Royal Bank of Scotland, Bank of Scotland and Barclays, which have yet to refinance Warner's facilities."

[martincc] 24/8/2009 09:14

good article posted on MNR board by mdchand, refers to HSTN recent holding in WNER




Another struggler is Warner Estate Holdings, where stock market favourite Hansteen has parked its tanks on the lawn by buying an 18.5% stake.

[martincc] 19/8/2009 18:29

Assume so, saw the RNSs re the Warner holding went through today on WNER.

Think it's a bit much though - 'Hansteen is an anagram of Ashtenne'
Are they taking the p?

[scburbs] 19/8/2009 16:47

Perhaps HSTN will be turning up to suggest WNER sell Ashtenne interests to them.

"NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that an Extraordinary General Meeting of Warner Estate Holdings PLC (the "Company") will be held at the Hyatt Regency Churchill Hotel, 30 Portman Square, London W1H 7BH on 18 September 2009 at 10.15 am or, if later, immediately following the conclusion of the Annual General Meeting of the Company (the "Meeting") for the purpose of considering, pursuant to Section 142 of the Companies Act 1985, whether any, and if so what, steps should be taken to deal with the situation that the net assets of the Company have fallen to less than half of its called up share capital."

[martincc] 17/8/2009 09:02

Hi scburbs,

Agree will be interesting to see what happens next for Warner.
I'm still watching, not holding.

I see it as a positive that HSTN picked up the holding, but there is always a negative, Trefick/Jack Petchey selling.

By coincidence, there is an article on Petchey in the Telegraph this w/e

Whether Petchey returns to the market through a shareholding rather than a direct property investment remains to be seen, but both are being considered. His stock-picking technique is famous for its attention to detail - five ringbinders can be compiled on each stock - and while he believes property has seen the worst of its falls, bar any surprises, he is not "over-keen" on any stock and believes the market is still "unsettled".

[scburbs] 17/8/2009 08:53

Something I didn't know is that Hansteen is an anagram of Ashtenne so clearly a bit of an obsession there from the Hansteen team towards Ashtenne (who most of the key people at Hansteen used to work for).

If Ashtenne needs an equity raise then Hansteen could support it whereas WNER could not, so WNER may be better off selling to Hansteen (the contract and the units) rather than being diluted. I suspect WNER will be trying to avoid Ashtenne needing an equity raise.

[scburbs] 17/8/2009 08:31

"Day-to-day management of the Fund will be handled by Mark Ovens and James Havery who have recently joined Hansteen from Warner Estate Holdings plc, where they ran the Ashtenne Industrial Fund."

[scburbs] 17/8/2009 08:16

Thanks Martincc. Will be very interesting to see how this unfolds. In particular it will be interesting to see if HSTN deal mainly with the Warners or whether HSTN tries to deal directly with the banks.

HSTN have poached key individuals from WNER (not clear whether they left on good terms or not). I suspect HSTN are after the Ashtenne Industrial Fund management contract.

At a price for HSTN of 87p mid the 18.5% is worth £2.868m. This puts a value on WNER of 27p per share.

[martincc] 17/8/2009 08:04

RNS today from Hansteen -

'representing a strategic stake of approximately 18.5 per cent., in the capital of Warner Estate Holdings plc "Warner") which were acquired (subject only to admission of the Ordinary Shares on AIM) from Trefick Limited on 14 August 2009.'

I hold HSTN but not WNER,I'm not sure why they would take a stake at this stage unless they know more than has been announced re Warner's current situation?
Would have been cheaper to buy 'forced sale' assets from companys such as Warner within their recently set up vulture fund.

[simon gordon] 15/8/2009 09:49

Hi Nick

I had a look at Songbird after you flagged it the other day. It is a pretty complicated story. Do you think they will be able to refinance? How much upside is there in the equity?

Thank you

[nickcduk] 15/8/2009 09:41

WNER are being far from open about their current predicament. They have quite a chunky negative NAV figure. Making all these disposals is all good and well but it reduces recurring profits and limits sharply any recovery in NAV when the market does bounce. I think the banks are going to force WNER to sell down assets where decent offers are made. Banks have probably already written down their loans and would be happy to walk away with small losses. What is probably saving WNER at the moment is the banks reluctance to take properties onto their own book. I think the banks preferred option would be to hawk off the whole portfolio to a single buyer and then sell off the asset management side. There is growing interest and lots of vulture buyers in the market struggling to spend the cash they are sitting on. Don't think equity holders will be left with anything at the end of the process.