Uil Share Discussion Threads

[energiser01] 13/10/2016 07:57

Uem nav upto 247, so looks to be trying to break higher. Should help balance any gold /resolute consolidation.

[tudes100] 13/10/2016 05:35

Not sure if anyone saw this...
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-11/mali-mines-union-calls-nationwide-strike-over-harassment-charges

[vacendak] 11/10/2016 13:41

This is a second level "look though", but there is going to be even more gold in UIL Ltd.
hxxp://clients3.weblink.com.au/clients/zetaresources/headline.aspx?headlineid=6793003

Basically UIL Ltd owns a lot of Zeta Resources, Zeta Resources owns 4.242% of GME Resources (ASX:GME) and as the PDF shows, GME and Zeta Resources have a joint venture with the Murrin Murrin Gold Project (Western Australia).

From the Zeta Resources news section of their website:
hxxp://zetaresources.limited/

[vacendak] 10/10/2016 14:43

Nah, I may be the oldest holder ("old" as is time in holding the shares, a gentleman is never old, only "wiser"), but Morton is the one who can read the fish entrails! :)

Hint: Morton could be Duncan Saville for all we know...

[spectoacc] 10/10/2016 14:27

Thanks @vacendak, I doubt anyone understands UTL better than you do (other than hopefully Duncan Saville) ;)

[topvest] 09/10/2016 11:02

I would like to see them take profits on Resolute Mining in the next year or so to lock-in the current gains and close the discount.

[morton2011] 08/10/2016 19:53

Hi Steve

UEM is Utilico Emerging Markets - hxxp://www.uem.limited/

UIL is UIL Investments - hxxp://www.uil.limited/ - 'UIL Limited (formerly Utilico Investments Limited and Utilico Limited) is an exempted closed-end Bermuda incorporated investment company, established as a successor to Utilico Investment Trust plc.'

ICM limited is not listed - hxxp://www.icm.limited/ and is the Investment manager for both the above. Bermuda listed but UK based. Ingot Capital Management Pty Ltd is a name used in Austrlia for a related/ group company of ICM.

The common thread is Duncan Saville who majority owns/ certainly controls most of all the above. It has been this way for well over a decade. Some of the other directors at ICM pop up all over the various top 10 holdings.

UEM has little gearing and is pretty simple to research. The rest is more difficult to follow but no one here has yet found any major issues with governance. UIL has 100% gearing so going to be much more volatile in pricing. 10% total return over the last decade speaks for itself despite the costs of gearing and the relatively high mgmt fees.

[vacendak] 07/10/2016 13:21

Two days ago Somers was up sharply (5.8%) on the Bermuda Stock Exchange.
hxxp://www.royalgazette.com/bermuda-stock-exchange/article/20161005/somers-ltd-rises-58-on-bsx

The Royal Gazette in Bermuda (www.royalgazette.com) looks like being a trove of UIL Ltd related news.

[vacendak] 07/10/2016 08:54

Mmmh... so we also have Ingot Capital Management Pty Ltd on top of ICM (This still spells Ingot Capital Management, right?) and ICMIM (ICM Investment Management Ltd).
And if one goes to the webpage of ICM (www.icmim.limited, yes, the URL is confusing) and looks under Directors, they can find that Charles Jillings is also director of ICM Investment Research Limited. That's a lot of "ICMs".

ICM and ICMIM are joint portfolio managers of UIL Ltd.
For all the Bermuda/Hong-Kong/Malaysia connections within the UIL Ltd universe, ICMIM is registered in England & Wales.

A few pips up for UTL +0.625p this morning even with RSG down overnight.
Gold (in £) is up today. Sterling cratered again so...

[morton2011] 07/10/2016 08:18

Mr Saville continues to shuffle his deck of cards

hxxp://www.royalgazette.com/international-business/article/20160916/somers-to-buy-88m-stake-in-australian-firm

All been approved and transacted (hxxp://clients3.weblink.com.au/pdf/HOM/01786624.pdf) other than Homeloans merger

Somers will be even more tightly controlled by Mr Saville as Ingot will have 29% stake which will then get diluted when UIL deal goes through but as he controls that no change.

Somers will end up with 57% of the Resimac-Homeloans merger which will be traded on ASX. This may well become one of UIL top 10 holdings on a look through basis assuming Somers share swap happens.

Seems good from a UIL perspective as Somers diversifying.

Currencies going to make UIL even more volatile in next few weeks - hopefully UIL is unhedged at moment as the hedge earlier in the year 'cost' # 23 million which reduced a lot of the currency gains in the portfolio. Unhedged the portfolio and NAV currency gains should absorb most of the recent reduction in RSG for those interested in short term tracking.

[vacendak] 06/10/2016 19:46

@retirement fund

Their latest AR was far more informative than usual when it came to explaining the strategy - it used to be solely blabbing about "investing in undervalued assets". They now have a "platform" philosophy (see the annual report from the website for details).

The gold bit in UIL Ltd is because they believe that there will be a price to pay for QE and negative interest rates. So they have hedged with a gold miner. The company does not hold bullion, at least not yet, as they have not said anything with regards to the Resolute dividend, which could be paid optionally with gold held at the Perth Mint.

So gold is a hedge against FinTech/Tech stocks (Touchcorp, Vix), pure financials (Somers, BFIC), resources/energy (Zeta) and Emerging Markets (UEM).

In other words, RSG is going to stay in the portfolio as part of the strategy.
As Morton has pointed out earlier, the company has taken some profits already from RSG. Historically, for Duncan Saville, Resolute has been a very loooong bet (he had some RSG holdings before UIL ltd got into it). So there might be some emotional link about it too.

Also, Utilico/UIL Ltd is about being long in general, some of the bets being originally pretty illiquid. Not for them to buy some shares one month and sell the next.

@eeza
Yes, that was the tone of what I picked-up earlier. I usually take YouTube videos from gold-bugs with a pinch of salt, but the "Chinese did not buy" argument was more believable than the usual conspiracy theories.

There was something also about the wedding season in India and better crops than usual (poor people trust gold over there), so potentially more appetite for physical and non speculative gold acquisition soon.

Anyway, if we read again the latest AR, we may have to admit that the past few months have had us cheer for our gold hedge going up, not the actual investments, which have not been doing too badly either even if they did not get yearly 300+% increase.

[eeza] 06/10/2016 16:34

China will be back on-stream on Sunday eve, & buying gold hand over fist.

[my retirement fund] 06/10/2016 16:19

Too bad they never sold and off loaded their Gold holdings whilst the market was still hot.

[vacendak] 06/10/2016 16:14

And gold is taking us down with it.
UTL down 7.375p right now.

2% uptick for UEM indeed, not too bad - I have UEMS to subscribe, so indirectly like UEM too - but still losing money going into the weekend. :(

Read something earlier today about China having had a long weekend or something, they had their independence day this week so did not trade in gold. They tend to buy steadilly and continually on normal days.

Still, while "heavy" on gold, UTL is not "only" about gold for Pete's sake. Cannot blame the algos either, UTL does not seem high enough in the FTSE ladder to be played with by the bots. If it were, I guess it would trade more and the spread would be down.

[mad foetus] 06/10/2016 16:05

On the other hand, UEM up. Gold seems to be in free fall versus the dollar, no idea where that ends.

[vacendak] 06/10/2016 14:23

Lived through Utilico/UIL going up, falling down, staying on the floor for a while and going back-up again, so not going to sell now.
Maybe one day, when I am too old, I will sell everything and splash out on a giant turnip...

What is mildly annoying, is that my dividend got reinvested a few days before the current hiccup.

RSG, CWE, TCH and ZER (those that can be tracked on ADVFN anyway) all down on the ASX last night. There was at least on trade on Zeta (ZER) yesterday, this disrupted the price by -14.3% all that for 750 shares changing hands; talk about illiquidity.

[luckymouse] 06/10/2016 14:06

agree - still miles under valued - that's the hedge if you are bothered

[morton2011] 06/10/2016 13:58

All seem a little panicky to me. Nothing new in that Gold goes up and down. UIL have been selling down their stake in Resolute in recent months a little anyway but see it as a hedge as part of their investment mix as per the recent Annual Report. The NAV was always going to be volatile as pointed out many times and was bound to come down at some point.

What remains is a deep discount in the share price to NAV, a decent yield at any price up to 250 in my view with over a year of revenue sitting in the accounts to pay the dividends which they have stated they will maintain, a Board that is buying back the shares and plenty of cash in the bank to redeem the ZDP's.

[vacendak] 06/10/2016 12:57

Bah!
Gold will recover: Kim Kardashian robbed at gunpoint in Paris, what more do you want to scare the markets?

RNS about the NAV in, and it is not good news: 334.25p


Could it be the redeeming of the ZDP 2016 at the end of the month? Odd though, since, as reported in the AR, the refinancing went pretty well. Also, once repaid, the ZDP debt should also be seriously down.

Or that Somers deal leading to NAV dilution? Still no RNS about that either.

People have been selling for the past two days.
£22,664 worth of UTL shares got dumped at 8.32 a.m. today.

[bamboo2] 06/10/2016 12:25

Mozy, will do. The last 2k, sold about 8.30am, I was going to keep longer term, but looking at a combination of the exposure of UTL to gold, where I think the USD is going, and other oppertunities meant it got the chop.

Funny that sometimes when one mentions selling you get accused of wanting to get in cheaper. I guess we have to take reliable posters at face value.

davebowler, thanks for the original tip. [on gpm]

[mozy123] 06/10/2016 11:27

Try mentioning your sells before a large drop next time :)

[bamboo2] 06/10/2016 10:36

Sold out over last two days as needed cash elsewhere [KWS]. Shame about my recent poorly timed top up here. Overall up just under 5%. Cheers