Uil Share Discussion Threads

[vacendak] 24/8/2016 11:14

Thanks Morton.

The Augean involvement must have been a pure utility bet back when UIL focused on that. They specialise in difficult waste and could have proven to be a Resolute-like company in the long term, but the stock never really took off. Correction, it took off (2005) then crashed slowly but surely over the following five years.

Investors discussing AUG on the ADVFN board seem to be happy with the company having been "doing alright" for the past five years (roughly 2010 onwards), the thread is entitled "Augean PLC - A little company with a big future" and was created in 2004.

UIL is cited as a big shareholder (it still appears as Utilico Investment Limited) on their website with 10+% of the company. Funny bit about making AUG pay a dividend, watch this interview of Charles Jillings (UEM):


If one skips to 2:35, Charles Jillings says: "There are a lot of high net worth individuals who invest in Utilico Emerging Markets who do look to a yield..." is he referring to dear Duncan? The way he says it sounds a bit nefarious, as if UEM owed some favour to Don Corleone. :)

The whole edifice: UIL/UIL Finance, UEM, Zeta/Zeta Energy, Vix Technologies, despite the growth and opportunity spiel, seems to yield some good money on the QT.

As for the never ending discussion about the discount, I tend to agree with you: Not going to budge and the annual reports never really make a fuss about it. Some other ITs are definitely more obsessed than they are, with stated policies to manage the discount (FRCL comes to mind). In any case, the discount widens in a healthy manner: the NAV is going up. Cannot fathom why UIL did some share buyback recently though, not really their style.

I do not really buy into the "milking the fees" business to explain the plethora of incestuous investment platforms. People reading this thread are well aware that those who run the show have a lot of their own money in it, why would they rob themselves? I have always understood that income/fees are easier to tax than the rest because they are clear income streams, clearer than the Zeta/Zeta Energy thing anyway.
It is more likely indeed to have pre-parcelled entities ready to be flogged off when the time comes.

Another point that has not been discussed too much on this thread: What about the multi-currency exposure factor? The recent rout of Sterling has surely helped in UIL recovery: The major investments were made with a relatively strong Sterling and the recent harvest has been made from non-Sterling assets.

[edit]
I have registered for the ICM newsletter, New Zealand Oil & Gas (NZOG holding in Zeta) is reporting its results:
hxxp://www.icm.limited/uploads/news/20160824_NZOG_Results.pdf

Linking to the above discussion on producing cash, they are resuming paying a dividend even though they are still underwater.
Duncan Saville has just moved to Cue Energy, which is responsible for most of the losses in NZOG, things should improve soon...

[spectoacc] 24/8/2016 09:42

Thanks @Morton. And it's that complicated even without multiple tranches of Zeros/rolled over Zeros!

Could some of it be tax-related? Inter-company loans, subsidiaries, interest payments..

[luckymouse] 24/8/2016 03:33

and the subs

[energiser01] 23/8/2016 10:38

Uem continuing to tick up nicely as well

[vacendak] 23/8/2016 08:43

A preliminary unaudited final report from Zeta:
hxxp://clients3.weblink.com.au/clients/zetaresources/headline.aspx?headlineid=6787405

The above link is from the news section on the Zeta website:
hxxp://zetaresources.limited/news/

The report is for activities up to the end of June, so prior to the Resolute fever.
Champagne was uncorked for losing far less money than the previous year. :)

The next report should look better. What is good for Zeta is good for UIL.

[eeza] 22/8/2016 12:48

Last time UTL was marked down at the open the Co was in the market to repurchase. Maybe see a buyback later today.

[davebowler] 22/8/2016 11:23

Still about 50% below NAV;


16-Aug-16

NAV per share (at bid market values)
in GBP sterling with prior charges at
nominal value
pence

Ordinary Shares

Net Asset Value - ex income 320.63

[vacendak] 22/8/2016 11:06

The July Zeta factsheet has been posted:

hxxp://zetaresources.limited/files/4314/7181/8863/2016.07_ZER_July_Fact_Sheet.pdf

Resolute as the rising star of course, oil prices hit NZOG a bit. Debt down by AU$ 2.3 mil.

The NTA went up by 41.5% in one month, which looks amazing but that would still need to more than double to barely recover the peak of July 2014.

Good news anyway for UIL via increased NAV.

UTL was dropped by 1.5p at opening this morning. Two "buys" and a small volume "sell" today so far.

[vacendak] 19/8/2016 14:11

Duncan Saville leaves the board of Infratil to join that of Cue Energy

www.icm.limited/news
www.icm.limited/uploads/news/asx18aug01.pdf
www.icm.limited/uploads/241612.pdf

Cue Energy is gas and oil exploration
www.cuenrg.com.au/IRM/content/default.aspx

[eeza] 19/8/2016 12:41

The later the better, as long as UTL's NAV keeps increasing.

[vacendak] 19/8/2016 12:34

Mozy

I think an earlier post from Morton implies some delays in getting approval from a regulator or authority.

[mozy123] 19/8/2016 12:25

Anyone know when these shares are being placed? When does the somers deal complete?

[vacendak] 19/8/2016 09:16

For those who follow Augean (1.8% of the UIL portfolio), someone called LBO has posted this on the AUG thread:
hxxp://m.investing.com/analysis/augean---management-ensures-capital-not-wasted-200146795

AUG is doing "alright" I guess, probably a remnant of the old Utilico investment philosophy.

[eeza] 19/8/2016 08:59

Somers deal looking better & better as the NAV increases.

[vacendak] 19/8/2016 08:55

Morton

My linking the buy-back to the the Somers deal might be seriously off the scale though.

According to the prospectus, the expected number of shares to be given to the Somers holders (Permanent Investments Limited) was 14.2 millions on May 18th, 2016, now only around 9 millions taking into account the serious increase in NAV and ignoring the extra $0.75 on the Somers share price (now $13.75).

The recent two buy-backs & cancellation together stand at 131,500 shares... so no, unless UIL starts buying-back millions (are there that many tradeable right now?) I do not see how the activity could pre-empt the dilution.

[edit]
SpectoAcc

Yes, and I was wrong on the timing too!

[spectoacc] 19/8/2016 08:38

Happy with them taking a little off the table re Resolute. Not sure I buy the buyback argument re Somers though - surely the time to buy back is when any Somers s/holders sell.

[morton2011] 19/8/2016 07:15

UIL Sold 4 million of the resolute shares as did UEM in last couple of weeks on overnight asx announcement. Around £4.4 million.UIL still have 118 million sharesVacepak : you may be right in that company buying ordinary shares is linked to somers. Assuming it happens if the new shareholders want to sell their shares in large quantities this would provide liquidity and protect current shareholders short term?

[vacendak] 18/8/2016 09:22

eeza

You are right. I may have sounded a bit too derogatory towards ICM.
If it were a deal with GPLPF for instance, they may have to announce it separately, a bit like the Somers deal, mentioning "interested parties" and such.

[Resolute]
Another good day with 7.3% gain for RSG, but gold seems to be retreating today (in Sterling anyway).

[eeza] 18/8/2016 08:58

My understanding is that UTL's broker does a deal with the MM to take up to 'x' amount of shares at a certain price. The MM makes a small turn on the trade but has no risk taking the shares onto his book because they are pre-sold to UTL.

[vacendak] 18/8/2016 08:18

I would say block-trades between big players; but considering how UIL is run, this could have been a pre-arranged sweet deal with one of its main shareholders.

Smaller investors are usually stuck with buying UIL very close to the offer price, even when dividend re-investment schemes, and sell at bid. :(

As noted above: a lot more share buy-backs these days, changes in management strategy?

[spectoacc] 17/8/2016 21:18

How are they getting these good prices? Cost me 167 yesterday, 167.2 today.