Tetragon Financial Share Discussion Threads

[apple53] 27/2/2021 22:42

Thanks for all the info. I am trying to listen to replay. Won't work for me. Either classic TFG or a glitch at my end. Anyone else any luck?

Meanwhile on buybacks sounds like time to do some work on volumes: but shareholders are winners either way: either the nav goes up or the share price does (or both to start with).

[ceaserxzy] 27/2/2021 19:15

It is ridiculous for them to say that they have given return to shares holders of $90 m in dividends plus tender offer. The tender offer is not a share holder return. It is stealing and robbing the share holder. It is like you offer someone £1m for his £3 m house and you told him that you gave him £1 m, while in fact you just robbed him £2 m.

[riskvsreward] 27/2/2021 17:31

If they pay shareholder more fairly and rob less themselves, there then surely will be fewer sellers and more buyers.

The simple fact that there is a persistent overhang of sellers even at such deep discount of 65% tells them what the shareholders think about them as the custodians of the shareholder money. It is better to take whatever you can before it is all stolen/lost.

[spectoacc] 27/2/2021 17:13

Thanks @Makinbuks.

Yes, fair point about an increased divi not helping counter the forced sellers - but surely an increased divi (or not bloody cutting it in the first place) attracts new buyers, who eventually take out the sellers.

One day we'll get back to a more reasonable discount (say 30-40%) - but I've been saying that for too long already.

[makinbuks] 27/2/2021 15:21

On the dividend, they outlined the 5 considerations they take into account when deciding the level of payout. They highlighted that at the current share price the yield was 4%. They pointed out that "returns" in the way of dividend plus the tender had been $90m matching the prior year in a difficult environment.

On fees versus dividends he answered very literally that you can't equate them (whicjh is true) but in my view deliberately avoided the "between the lines" question of whether the trust is run for the benefit of the managers or the shareholders.

On the discount to NAV, he said that what was required to close it was more buyers than sellers and that there had been a big overhang of sellers in the US.He listed many reasons that have been suggested as the single cause but he believes in fact that they are all valid. Specifically dividends and buybacks are not a panacea.

On Ripple, the valuation is based on a DCF calc with a 15.5% discount rate. Shareholders should note that the class of share we own is not traded nor is it the currency itself. He explained that the SEC investigation was known to them at the time of investing and was the reason for the money back clause. Interestingly he then very quietly and quickly admitted that being considered a security was the way things were moving rather than a fact which is the very point Rippple have made in rejecting the claim. They noted that Ripple claim to have $360m cash on their balance sheet from $330m at end December, his point being that there is liquidity there

[topvest] 27/2/2021 15:07

Yes, same old story. Its a very good collection of assets, but minority shareholders don't appear to be obtaining the benefit. Will they ever actually list the asset management business? I think equitix is undervalued.

[makinbuks] 27/2/2021 15:06

You can listen to a replay here
hxxp://www.tetragoninv.com/investors/calendar-and-events

[tula100] 26/2/2021 23:57

I registered for a notification about the call but never got it! What did they say?

[deckoj] 26/2/2021 16:59

damn i missed it - did they address the discount and why not buy back more shares ?

[alpal2] 26/2/2021 14:32

I can't partake in the Investor Call today. I hope someone will take the directors to task for only looking after management and ignoring shareholders.

[flying pig] 26/2/2021 12:33

I suspect the directors are not entirely clear about the concept of fiduciary duty to shareholders. The concept of being robber barons seems rather nearer to their consciousness.

[horndean eagle] 26/2/2021 09:36

Have a look at how much cash was paid to investment manager in fees last year compared to the dividend. Have a look at how much Reade Griffiths is taking out in salary and shares each year on top of what TFG are paying to the investment manager. They are looting the company dry. No mention in results of shareholder return any more. Its not a metric that is important to them.

[alpal2] 26/2/2021 08:57

Keeping the dividend at 10c is clear confirmation that the directots are only interested in themselves. Non-voting shareholders are irrelevant.
Definitely not pleased.

[alpal2] 23/2/2021 16:12

When does TFG do next dividend declaration?

[apple53] 23/2/2021 10:31

Constructive is good. Aggressive flak pointless.

It's interesting- the independent directors are US-heavy and in my limited experience significant discounts to NAV are rarer in the US and much remarked on (Pershing).

[alpal2] 23/2/2021 10:17

a53: In my submission to TFG, I did think of being critical of the inaction of the 'so-called' independent directors; they don't seem very independent and are certainly not looking to the interests of outside shareholders. Instead I made what are I hope are constructive suggestions which will be listened to by all directors to reduce the discount to NAV.

[apple53] 23/2/2021 07:07

I have written (again) to Yuko.
I have included the points I made above, but tailored my view on the dividend to match the majority view on this board.
In particular I have asked where else management is able to achieve >100% short term return on investment, what is the logic for tenders vs market repurchases, how fees can be charged on NAV when management doesn't vigorously pursue discount management.

Has anyone attempted to write to the other 3 board members?

[westofengland] 22/2/2021 13:27

I have also made suggestions on how they improve the rating- principal goal is to add to the dividend as this will help improve the market price.

They have got quite a good following with Chris at JPMorgan Cazenove stating that this is an attractive trust.

[makinbuks] 22/2/2021 12:22

Looking forward to it

[alpal2] 22/2/2021 12:18

Hope you have all sent questions for Investor Call. While I'm sure that many of the questions overlap, it's important for directors to know that more than a few shareholders do not think they are looking after small shareholders. I've asked for update on Ripple investment and made suggestions on how to narrow discount to NAV.

[spectoacc] 21/2/2021 08:10

Obviously, "if only they'd bought Bitcoin", but Ripple's price is right back up - good time for them to sell, wonder if they will.

[topvest] 11/2/2021 19:08

Good work all.

[riskvsreward] 11/2/2021 11:43

Same here, got a reply from Yuko. So give them credit, at least they have taken notice and promised to addressing the question, and replied quickly.

The more the PI voices and hopefully the more effect it will have. Hope the questions at the AGM will get the IIs notices as well.

[spectoacc] 11/2/2021 11:23

Have had a polite reply already, saying they'll add my questions to the list at the AGM. If nothing else, we'll be giving them something to think about.