Stanley Gibbons Share Discussion Threads

[dashton42] 05/12/2012 14:40

Mmmm - the breakout does seem to be more pronounced now - although volume still fairly low. Don't know why yet, but it's still good to see, after the recent rangebound trading.

[dashton42] 05/12/2012 10:15

Yes, on very low volume though.

Still waiting for news of the mythical rare stamp fund. I may have more chance of spotting a unicorn.

I've been using the new bidstart website a bit for buy it now and auction purchases. Well, it works, and while it's good to bid on a sleepy site without too many competing bids, as an investor it would be good to see more traffic there.

I hope that in time, rather than the UK page just forwarding you to the US site, they'll build the UK domain up. And all the other contries in the world, of course...

[robinnicolson] 05/12/2012 08:54

Some nice price movement this morning.

[dashton42] 20/11/2012 12:38

Talking of the Rare Stamp Fund, apparently this is "...still in the offing but is not quite there yet", according to an email reply I received from Stanley Gibbons.

[dashton42] 19/11/2012 10:50

Tell It - I think that the Half Yearly Report sums it up?

"Cash used in operating activities of GBP3.6m (2011: cash generated of GBP0.9m) is after an increased investment in our stockholding of GBP7.7m (2011: GBP0.9m). The build up of stock towards the end of the first half of this year represents a short-term working capital commitment in relation to the acquisition of some of the most famous philatelic rarities from Great Britain. Such stock was acquired specifically to enable us to supply the appropriate material on the expected launch of the rare stamp investment fund scheduled for later this year.

It is anticipated that stock levels will reduce and cash levels increase to historic levels once the rare stamp fund is launched. Irrespective of the successful launch of the fund, we are confident, based on the quality of stock recently acquired, that such stock would be sold through our normal business channels over the next 12 months.

The reduction in cash during the period of GBP5.0m (2011: GBP0.6m) reflects dividends paid of GBP0.9m (2011: GBP0.8m), tax paid of GBP0.2m (2011: GBP0.3m) and investment in capital expenditure of GBP0.3m (2011: GBP0.2m). "

[tell it as it is] 18/11/2012 04:09

I'm new to following this share. Please can anyone enlighten me as to why they had such a big operating cash outflow in the 6 months to June 2012 ? Many thanks

[dashton42] 16/11/2012 10:39

Simon Thompson covers SGI in today's Investors Chronicle (Directors Deals - 16/11/12), reiterating his Buy recommendation, and the potentially transformative nature of the Bidstart aquisition.

[dashton42] 15/11/2012 14:13

p.s. they need to be careful they get the listings right - they have a £52,500 Japanese gold coin inexplicably listed as a stamp...

[dashton42] 15/11/2012 13:53

Good spot 2020!

I must admit I didn't even realise SGI were listing on there yet - it looks from the reviews like they started doing this around September.

I've had a look at their store - there are lots of extremely expensive items listed, a few in the quarter of a million range. Btw, some (though apparently not all) of these pricey stamps also appear on the main SGI website.

Whether they sell will be a different matter - only feedback for 4 low value items on Bidstart so far...

[2020hindsight] 15/11/2012 13:03

I assumed Bidstart would be used for relatively low value / high volume items.

But SG seem to be using it to market some very expensive products - eg this block of 12 Penny Blacks at £480,000 !!!! Plus £2 for postage :-)

[dashton42] 15/11/2012 12:38

Just noticed this on the BidStart site:

[2020hindsight] 13/11/2012 11:09

Dashton42 - under the old version either my investment manager or I would suggest a stamp be sold. It looks like (although I've sent an email to confirm this) that the new version becomes more the responsibility of the investor. So I suspect that the combination of less "active" management by SG and the new commission tiers will result in less churn.

[rotors] 13/11/2012 11:07

Jersey registered fund, dates yet to be confirmed. So probably a Jersey based manager?

It could be that the original figures proposed (£10K to £20K minimum investment) will be overshadowed to avoid any disproportionate charges.

So, watch this space I guess. Not sure it will impact hugely on immediate profit figures.

[rotors] 13/11/2012 10:49

The 2011 Annual Report (Chairman's statement - page 3) refers only to an 'appropriate fund structure to enable interested parties to invest in the collectibles market' and to 'launch a rare stamp fund subject to regulatory approval in 2012'.

I seem to recall that at the AGM the time window was about now, November 2012.

I am sure that there would be some announcement, unless there is a behind-the-scenes approach to HNW individuals directly. That would be why I have heard nothing...!

Has anybody contacted SGI??

[dashton42] 13/11/2012 10:11

Thanks 2020. So are we saying that the principle difference between the "old" and "new" FTP is that it is the investor, rather than Stanley Gibbons, who decides on the level of "churn" within the portfolio?

G1TY - are you sure that this (repackaged) product isn't the so-called Fund we were all waiting for? Although it wasn't what I was expecting a "fund" to look like, it does seem to be the only new product around, and the timing, although somewhat delayed from the October release we were told about, looks to be about right.

[graham1ty] 13/11/2012 09:44

Not the new Stamp Fund........still waiting

[2020hindsight] 13/11/2012 09:01

Dashton - see my post above relating to the differences between the "old" and "new" FTP.

With the "old" FTP, you invest in a portfolio from SG. When it makes sense to do so (i.e. after a reasonable gain in value) they would recommend you sell a stamp/stamps. They would then do so and reinvest money in new stamps. At this point, no commission is payable by the customer. Only when the stamp is sold for cash did they take commission.

With the replacement FTP, it appears that they will no longer buy/sell. You simply buy a stamp and hold it for a period, the longer you hold it the less commission is payable to SG.

The details of the various products can be found here :

[dashton42] 13/11/2012 08:53

I'm inclined to agree, G1TY.

This new product forms part of their suite of investment products - the others being the Capital Growth Plan, and the Portfolio Builder.

I think, and I could be wrong, that with the Flexible Trading Portfolio, you hand over a wad of cash (they talk about 40k being a typical investment), and they produce a personalised portfolio of rare stamps for you. You're then at liberty to sell these whenever you want, taking advantage of supposed trading opportunities as and when these present themselves, and are recommended to plough the procedes back into the purchase of more rare stamps.

If you're a high net worth individual, you could do all of this yourself of couse, but if you're not a philatic expert, Stanley Gibbons will assemble the portfolio, and provide free storage, valuations and insurance.

How this product differs from the other investment products they offer, I'm not really sure.

[2020hindsight] 13/11/2012 08:41

This is a replacement for the old FTP, which itself replaced the AMP (Actively Managed Portfolio).

For investors in stamps, this looks a mixed bag. Holding stamps longer means more profit as less commission is paid to SG, however, it's much less effort for SG. In the old FTP, SG would actively manage your portfolio, selling and purchasing as required. No commission would be payable by the customer until you sold for cash (as opposed to selling to purchase another stamp).

Thanks for bringing this to my attention - I'll be contacting SG to see how this affects me !

[graham1ty] 13/11/2012 07:59

It does appear that this is a new fund. Hardly the razzmatazz suggested over the last months ( nay years).....after all the talk in every announcement, every annual report, this will be a complete damp squib if it has not been "launched".

[dashton42] 13/11/2012 07:30

P.S. I've just downloaded the "New Flexible Trading Portfolio" .pdf from the Stanley Gibbons website. I haven't had a chance to go through it yet (loads of small print), but it is dated November 2012, so whatever this investment product is, it's hot off the press.

[dashton42] 13/11/2012 07:17

I just found this brief note:



I can't really work out if this is the "Rare Stamp Fund" or not, as there's so little information. There's also this on the SGI website:



Is this something new, or one of their existing investment products? I don't know.

[graham1ty] 12/11/2012 07:56

Can u let us know on here if/when it is launched. Might be big announcement and jamboree, or might do private roadshow to sound out potential.

I still have real reservations about the Fund. while it will be great to have a product in the market place that shows the growth ( hopefully) in value of stamps, there is still absolutely no explanation of how this is going to work, and whether it will make money. Surely SG will only be able to charge say 1-2% management fee, so a fund of £10m only generates a couple of hundred grand. Would it not be far far more profitable to get a few high rollers into collecting stamps directly. One buyer of £10m worth of actual stamps might generate a margin of 20-30% ........

Secondly, how are they going to "buy" stamps for the fund ? SG say they have been accumulating high value items ahead of the launch. Are SG going to sell those to the Fund ? at cost ? surely the manager cannot take a turn selling into the fund ? ( if they do charge 10%, say, that is 10% off the performance, up front.....). And surely the fund will have to be arms length from SGI ? Even if they are manager ( and there will be independent trustees who have to decide whether they are the right manager), how will they deal with the conflict of interest when they are offered a great collection ? What gets sold into the Fund and what gets passed on to other clients. If they can buy a great collection, off market, at below actual value, do they break it up, sell it on at high margin to ordinary clients ? Or put it in the Fund ( for an immediate uplift in asset value ).

I continue to think this Fund is a red herring with dubious benefits.......

[jeanesy2] 10/11/2012 20:15

I am still expecting news about the rare stamp fund soon.