Silverdell Share Discussion Threads

[stevenlondon3] 17/9/2013 16:39

My experience from the living dead is that the company has to produce an annual report to keep Company House happy.

[pj 1] 17/9/2013 13:33

There was a trading update 4th October last year, but I do not think they have to report until Results 5th December?

[davr0s] 17/9/2013 11:56

Just out of interest - what are the statutory requirements for reporting to the market ie do they have to issue a trading statement within a set period ?

[kimboy2] 13/9/2013 16:45

In the last accounts Kitsons had;

Current assets

Stocks - £2,276,097
Debtors -£11,925,607
Cash - £601,944

Total - £14,803648

Creditors - £5,600,776

Net assets - £9,278,456

On top of that SID is paying £8m for Kitsons.

If the creditors are only going to get 23p/£ then the total they will get will be £1.3m. That would leave a loss of over £21m unexplained.

[stevenlondon3] 13/9/2013 16:17

Apologies if this has been mentioned before but Marwyn(major shareholder) reported its interims on the 29th august.

On SID it commented

"In early July, the Company requested a temporary trading suspension of its shares on AIM, following one of its subsidiaries (Kitsons Environmental) being placed into administration. The Company has subsequently announced that the trading business of Kitsons will be transferred to another group subsidiary and the Company's bank has provided its continued support to the group prior to seeking a lifting of the suspension from trading of its shares.

Investment Performance:

During the six month period to 30 June 2013, SID's share price decreased from 15.1p to 13p. The Company was valued at the Master Fund level using the last available share price as at the 30th of June 2013, prior to the temporary trading suspension."


It would have been more prudent, I think, to mark it down to zero than using the last available share price - assuming they know little more than is in the public domain.

[17paddy] 13/9/2013 11:10

GOOD and BAD In view of the lack of information I can only repeat what I was told by a creditor of Silverdell who says that the Administrator has advised that they hope to pay 23p in the pound to unsecured creditors some time in the future. Better news than I was expecting but still a huge blow for suppliers who will now lose millions. This supplier was a very unhappy fellow.
From all accounts moral in group is rock bottom, TUPE transfers are being challenged and have caused unrest,clients and suppliers etc are totally in the dark and as such the group is not being seriously considered for some bids due to lack of confidence .
It will be interesting to get the statement from the Board in respect of contract losses and compare that to market
I understand that the turn around specialist are actively involved and the appointment of the new FD will bring some much needed experienced to a board which is clearly out of it's depth and is in desperate need of guidance.

[hippo] 12/9/2013 11:20

^my view too.

PI's will end up with nothing here :-(

[hvs] 10/9/2013 09:21

It aint happening.

[salpara111] 10/9/2013 09:06

About time they relisted this.

[hvs] 09/9/2013 09:07

lol !!!!!!

Bean counters and CLEAN ???

a new FD with a clean track

[shanklin] 09/9/2013 07:57

....or a former FD who needed a job?

[4selwyn6] 08/9/2013 17:36

The good news is that it will soon return to the market, a new FD with a clean track record to date would not want to back a "wrong horse"

[17paddy] 06/9/2013 11:32

I will be delighted if there is no requirement to raise additional funding as this will undoubtedly assist the share price.
To achieve this they must be making substantial profits elsewhere or perhaps dispose of an asset.
End of year will make interesting reading

[erb2008] 06/9/2013 09:47

17 Paddy - yeah i don't disagree - all seems a completely mad situation.

I should also say that the inference was that there is no intention to raise further funds - i would however assume that the new FD will want/need to make his own assessment of future cashflow and forecasts.

[17paddy] 06/9/2013 09:26

Kimboy2 I will be delighted if I am wrong and there is an additional £12m for distribution to creditors but must confess to being baffled as to where this figure came from and how I missed it . Perhaps you can throw some light on where a net figure of £12m came from.

ERB I agree Kitsons did have cash in the bank at the time of administration ,in excess of £4.4m and were owed another £3m from other group companies. Delighted that cash continues to be collected. Does beg the question as to why it was necessary to put this company into liquidation with such a free flow of cash to manage the business.

[erb2008] 06/9/2013 07:50

The length of the suspension is because they are trying to protect the share price and as you said get their house in order and have visibility/certainty of future revenue/earnings.

Kimboy2 - you are correct - they had +£3m cash in the bank when they went into administration and +£6m when they came out - can't expand on that any further as i do not know any more e.g. i am not certain if they means Kitsons or PLC but i believe it means Kitsons.

Paddy - fair point but he does have the support of the main investors.

[briangeeee] 05/9/2013 23:35

IMO, a significant factor in the company getting into trouble was that they were prioritising profitability over ensuring adequate cash.
Over the last couple of months, under the administrators at Kitsons, that is likely to have been heavily reversed, or at least in so far as existing contracts will allow. Therefore, when they come back out of suspension, there might not actually be a requirement to raise fresh equity capital, but profit forecasts will need to be slashed.

[waynesoton] 05/9/2013 19:56

I think that the new CFO is a very good appointment and I think he could be very good for the business and I suspect that he will have a high share incentive to get the business back on track (let's just hope he likes nice big challenges) and I suspect he is taking the job as he knows if he can help turn the business round and back on top it's going to be good for him either with SID or if he ever went else where it will look very good on his CV so overall I think a great appointment.I suspect the CEO will end up staying but if he is lucky enough to stay he will know every decision he makes will be scrutinised and hopefully make sure he is on the ball again.I think the bank had a little hand in the change of CFO something like .... We believe in the business but not the CFO if you want the money we want a new CFO.Either way this rns shows they are obviously working hard to get the business back on top and get the suspension lifted.

[alexkb] 05/9/2013 19:42

originally when the suspension happened i thought the worst, but at this point im with kimboy2 on the delaying the trading of shares until it gets its house in order.

I had a quick look at the list of rns's from them, and there is a trading update, or more formal update at least once in three months. Well its been at least three months since the last one. It would be nice to know if there has been any differences between customers new or lost and if theres been any fallout in relation to suppliers eg not as good terms etc. Given the specialism in some of the work they do and not being that many competitors i feel its crucial they get this right more than anything otherwise we can kiss any chance of decent performance goodbye if this gets a deserved bad reputation within this industry moving forwards.

i dont have that many shares here but before this incident i was hoping for a return back to 17-20p range, absolutley no chance of that in the short term now, unless the profits really justify it, and they dont get a bad rep, but thats a year away at this rate.

[kimboy2] 05/9/2013 18:50

You have forgotten the £12m of debts that Kitsons were owed as well as the £8m.

[17paddy] 05/9/2013 18:28

ERB2008 you missed a vital word from your statement. Willingly. Think it wiser to await the report on the conduct of directors before celebrations get underway.

[17paddy] 05/9/2013 17:56

In answer to Kimboy on why creditors are unlikely to be paid, if I remember correctly the pecking order for payment is secured creditors ie staff wages, holiday pay etc, fixed or floating charges (bank) and then unsecured creditors, trade creditors HMRC etc.
It is doubtful if £8m would be sufficient to satisfy the secured creditors and therefore leave unsecured creditors without payment.
No doubt we will be informed in due course

[beep_beep] 05/9/2013 13:24

he doesnt have to leave, just demote him to tea boy

[erb2008] 05/9/2013 11:39

I am certain Sean Nutley will not be going anywhere.

[dozey1] 05/9/2013 10:22

Two points.
First: This is good news. Mr Hazlewood appears to have an ideal background for the job, and presumably was not short of offers following the takeover of his previous employers (May Gurney). Thus he must have a shrewd idea that SID can be resurrected as a going concern and hopefully a flourishing one.
Second: the rns says, unsurprisingly, "Mr. Hazlewood does not hold any shares in the Group". No doubt when suspension is lifted this will change, and the extent to which it changes may be a fair indication of the future prospects.

I remain hopeful that the company can recover from here. My holding is small but I intend to hang on in there.