Silverdell Share Discussion Threads

[bookbroker] 02/7/2013 12:03

Until the full facts are known, I'm still inclined to believe this co. has a future, they were the ones who asked for their shares to be suspended pending clarification, although any situation like this looks grim, it may be that they are acting while they can to ensure the business continues in one form or another, they have a strong board with experience, seems extraordinary that it is but one year since this so-called transformational deal to buy EDS, at the end of the day the co. is still trading, difficult to put a positive spin nonetheless.

[typo56] 02/7/2013 11:51

Unless those debtors haven't been paying up for some reason or aren't quite what they seem?

[bookbroker] 02/7/2013 11:49

BrianGee - please explain when you say 'the group was subject to a winding up order by HSBC', which group Silverdell or GPM? Still flummoxed, looking at accounts there is nothing to ring major alarm bells!

[shanklin] 02/7/2013 11:34

Some businesses do well, others do less well, but it really needs to be an offence punishable by long prison sentences for directors to knowingly allow there to be a false market in their company's shares.

In due course we will probably find out whether this is the case here. I do remember a few years ago being very hard hit in ROK which I bought into a few days before it went bust. Don't know whether any directors there ended up being sanctioned but IMHO they should have done.

[rat attack] 02/7/2013 11:32

This could quite simply be scaremongering by GPM, ie they have been messed around with contractual terms constantly ignored, or payment fobbed off, and are trying to bring Kitson's to heel. GPM appear to be a small company by virtue of not having to file full accounts at Companies House. However, the danger here is are HMRC waiting in the wings and are the amounts involved with GPM and HMRC significant in the context of Silverdell? Either way, unfortunately mud sticks even in this sector.

Some background info on GPM from CompanyCheck:


Business Overview

G P M Group Ltd is an Active business incorporated in England & Wales on 1st April 2009. Their business activity is recorded as Other Construction Installation. G P M Group Ltd is run by 1 current members. 2 shareholders own the total shares within the company. It is not part of a group.

The latest Annual Accounts submitted to Companies House for the year up to 31/03/2012 reported 'cash at bank' of £217,903, 'liabilities' worth £621,101, 'net worth' of £253,286 and 'assets' worth £857,029. G P M Group Ltd's risk score was amended on 23/05/2013.

[dasv] 02/7/2013 11:30

Kitsons Environmental Europe's FY2012 revenues and PBT were £27.3m and £1.327m respectively - so a fairly sizeable chunk of the group

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Digital Look

Silverdell FundamentalsYear Ending Revenue (£m) Pre-tax (£m) EPS P/E PEG EPS Grth. Div Yield
30-Sep-08 61.38 (16.80) 0.60p 54.2 n/a -92% n/a 0.0%
30-Sep-09 59.51 (6.87) 0.80p 11.9 0.4 +33% n/a 0.0%
30-Sep-10 56.67 1.83 0.90p 9.4 0.8 +12% n/a 0.0%
30-Sep-11 59.70 2.46 1.40p 7.8 0.1 +56% n/a 0.0%
30-Sep-12 82.52 0.53 1.46p 9.0 2.2 +4% 0.17p 1.3%

a. Based on UK GAAP presentation of accounts - includes discontinued activities
Silverdell ForecastsYear Ending Revenue (£m) Pre-tax (£m) EPS P/E PEG EPS Grth. Div Yield
30-Sep-13 137.33 9.57 1.97p 6.5 0.2 +35% 0.28p 2.2%
30-Sep-14 147.97 10.87 2.20p 5.8 0.5 +12% 0.47p 3.6%

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Kitson's revenue made up Silverdell FundamentalsYear Ending Revenue (£m) Pre-tax (£m) EPS P/E PEG EPS Grth. Div Yield
30-Sep-08 61.38 (16.80) 0.60p 54.2 n/a -92% n/a 0.0%
30-Sep-09 59.51 (6.87) 0.80p 11.9 0.4 +33% n/a 0.0%
30-Sep-10 56.67 1.83 0.90p 9.4 0.8 +12% n/a 0.0%
30-Sep-11 59.70 2.46 1.40p 7.8 0.1 +56% n/a 0.0%
30-Sep-12 82.52 0.53 1.46p 9.0 2.2 +4% 0.17p 1.3%

a. Based on UK GAAP presentation of accounts - includes discontinued activities
Silverdell ForecastsYear Ending Revenue (£m) Pre-tax (£m) EPS P/E PEG EPS Grth. Div Yield
30-Sep-13 137.33 9.57 1.97p 6.5 0.2 +35% 0.28p 2.2%
30-Sep-14 147.97 10.87 2.20p 5.8 0.5 +12% 0.47p 3.6%


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Kitsons' revenue therefore made up 33% of the revenue of the group

[briangeeee] 02/7/2013 11:26

Hopefully the proper situation should be disclosed shortly, although it doesn't feel promising for shareholders.

[pyemckay] 02/7/2013 11:24

look up winding order on google, SID are toast, be ready to accept a full loss here.

[briangeeee] 02/7/2013 11:24

The GPM Group winding up petition was due to be heard yesterday. Despite what TW says, it's pretty much a red herring. It was only for £60k, and has been paid. The company asked for the hearing yesterday to be adjourned, as apparently the Group was subject to a winding up order by HSBC. That appears to be the problem.

[bookbroker] 02/7/2013 11:16

Winding up order issued by GPM Group Ltd., Bromley, Kent, as a creditor of the co., it would be interesting to know what exactly is owed by Kitsons, and how material the amount is, one can live in hope that a resolution will be found!

[stegrego] 02/7/2013 11:15

A Petition to wind up the above named company Kitsons Environmental Europe Limited, of 1 Cameron Court, Winwick Quay, Warrington, Cheshire WA2 8RE (Registered Office) presented on 10 May 2013 by GPM Group Limited of 16a London Road, Bromley, Kent BR1 3QR (Registered Office) claiming to be a creditor of the Company will be heard at The Companies Court, 7 Rolls Building, Fetter Lane, London EC4A 1NL on Monday 1 July 2013 at 1030 hours (or as soon thereafter as the Petition can be heard).

hxxp://gpmgroupltd.com/index.html

A materials supplier.


WTF is going on here????!!

[drewz] 02/7/2013 11:15

And there you have it.

[rat attack] 02/7/2013 11:13

Clearly we need to be reading all BBs given the issues were known by someone for the last month:


From a post by barkinglad on iii on 12-6-13

It was very interesting to read the notes of your meeting with SID and there is no doubt that there are some excellent opportunities for the group but it is beginning to read like a worldwide list of opportunities which is easy to develop for marketing prurposes but SID are a long long way off being an truly international contractor and will face severe competition in developing these opportunities. EDS do have expereience in working in Canada and have secured a contract in Austrlia but SID will need to be much stronger financilally and add to their experienced personnel to seriously challenge these markets.

I was most innterested to hear that Mr Nutley is saying that there is NO financing necessary for the flagged 15% growth, this is very comforting provided it is achieved but needs to be considered against other facts/ rumours and it would be interesting to know if any of the following was discussed.

1. The downgrading of Kitsons Rating by B & B following a winding up partition by G.P.M. Group on the 10.05.13
2. A warning of winding up action issued by HMRC in April
3. Suppliers claiming that they have not been paid for services/goods supplied late 2012.
4. The resignation of a number of senior directors.

Any information that you have would be helpful as I consider that if SID are forced to go back to the market for additional funding the share price could take a serious hit

[timp230] 02/7/2013 11:04

As a pointer to materiality, Kitsons Environmental Europe's FY2012 revenues and PBT were £27.3m and £1.327m respectively - so a fairly sizeable chunk of the group.

[typo56] 02/7/2013 10:55

Kitsons were on yesterday's Winding Up Petitions list to be heard at 10:30am

hxxp://windinguppetitionsolicitors.co.uk/insolvency-lawyers-london/companies-court-winding-up-list-01-07-13/

[m1das_touch] 02/7/2013 10:54

c1d, the petition was heard yesterday...that's why we are where we are today!

[caradog] 02/7/2013 10:53

Because those who have lost money are often too shell-shocked to care about posting on bulletin boards

[m1das_touch] 02/7/2013 10:53

Well I'm sure some of them did sell a few weeks ago (or yesterday), others probably never held, and still others want to appear to be wise or hate admitting to losses and so pretend they sold out!

As for me I have no problem in admitting I got my fingers badly burnt here...as it happens only yesterday I noticed that the price had fallen through my initial buy-in price and wondered what was going on. With the benefit of hindsight I wish I'd sold the lot yesterday...but sadly we don't invest or trade with the benefit of hindsight!

For what it's worth TW believes that SID may not be 'toast' yet...I'll be taking his views with a pinch of salt!

[c1d] 02/7/2013 10:51

See link below to a copy of the winding up petition which is due to be heard today (as I write this in fact).

hxxp://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/60529/notices/1840846

[snowydays] 02/7/2013 10:47

Why is it that whenever a share is "suspended" the boards are always full of posts by people claiming to have sold out a few weeks ago?

[p o n a] 02/7/2013 10:40

last two paragraphs


On the basis of 30 seconds research on the internet I now know that. Kitsons had a winding up order issued against it on 13th June. That is to say the management was fully aware of this problem a full seven days BEFORE issuing a gushing trading statement blathering on about new orders.

On that basis this appears to be a clear case of breaching AIM rules with regard to material non-disclosure. Do the AIM regulation team give a damn about the rule book? If they do here's a slam dunk opportunity for them to prove it.

[bookbroker] 02/7/2013 10:31

Disappointing this is, sitting on a lump I have been wondering why they have kept falling, more likely here that they have breached their debt covenants relating to debt to equity, there is no rhyme or reason as to when directors make this decision, so I can only assume banks are concerned about the situation and have forced the co. to make this decision. Very annoying as it leaves investors totally in the dark, we'll have to see what can be salvaged, uncertainty never a nice situation to be in when one does not know the full details, just got to hope that they can see this situation out.