RSM Tenon Share Discussion Threads

[bonio10000] 09/11/2011 17:04

There is certainly no need to pile in ASAP as a business like this does not double turnover overnight.

However, if it hits the teens I think this is a screaming buy.

I see the company being nigh on debt free in 3 years if it does not purchase anyone else.

[imastu pidgitaswell] 09/11/2011 16:20

I definitely see value here, and potentially a lot of it, some 3-4 times the current price - it's a question of whether it will be realised.

Do you trust the words, or the actions of the management? My problem is that I was a bit 50:50 last time - this latest RNS, maybe unfairly considered by me, shifts me towards the doubt camp. I guess by the time it's clear that they have 'sorted' the cashflow (if they do), the price will have run away...

'twas ever thus.

For the moment, I'm staying away, not least as my 'investments' are currently underwater elsewhere...

[bonio10000] 09/11/2011 13:51

Page 12 to the 14 Sept 2011 presentation.

Bonuses, dividends and skewed H2 trading all issues in H1 cashflow.

[bonio10000] 09/11/2011 13:47

There is a review of annual working capital management on the slides for the presentation with the last set of results.

Shows the seasonality, although the reduction in dividend payable in December will mitigate some of the outflow.

Given the bias to audit and December year-ends, most accountancy firms are always skewed a bit to H2 anyway.

Not bothered really, happy to hold as i see value in the business, especially once contigent payments are complete.

[imastu pidgitaswell] 08/11/2011 14:20

bonio10000 - 29 Oct'11 - 09:47 - 593 of 597

Always thought there were a lot of BS's on here after the results.



I thought there were a few people on here at the time of the results - just trying to make sense of some of the murky ramblings of the management. There is, apparently, value in the businesses, but what was not clear was how it would be realised.

This update is suggesting that management are also less than clear. As for the working capital management, it's now going to get worse from an already poor position - but that's only seasonal, before getting better - which will doubtless be down to their management ability.

For a bloody accountancy group who 'advise' clients, they show a pretty poor grasp of manging their own business.

[still waiting] 08/11/2011 13:15

just the start of the bad news imho..

training whilst staff twiddle their fingers is one way of putting it..

[ny boy] 31/10/2011 13:02

Easy money for a few of us that added/bought the lows!

[ny boy] 31/10/2011 08:38

Onwards & upwards!

[bonio10000] 29/10/2011 09:47

Always thought there were a lot of BS's on here after the results.

[crawford] 28/10/2011 15:17

Very happy if it rises steadily NY Boy - and stays under the radar!

[ny boy] 28/10/2011 14:27

Aye but don't tell everyone or they will all be piling into this grossly under-valued beauty!!

Happy topping up, following in the footsteps of earlier fund buying.

[crawford] 28/10/2011 14:01

Some nice buying today.

[ny boy] 19/10/2011 14:27

Either we're wrong or the market has got this badly wrong, in which case following the big fund buyer, these should be over 30p soon.

[cnx] 18/10/2011 17:45

probably no harm done

[bonio10000] 18/10/2011 16:42

Nice tick up.

Let's hope some stale holders are out.

[ny boy] 18/10/2011 10:18

Has to be one of the most under-valued stocks around!! Smart money buys in here as shown by the hedge fund activity. PI's usually miss the boat. They will start buying at 30-40p+ lol!

[ny boy] 14/10/2011 11:34

Yes cheap as chips after the huge fund buying of late!

Time the market woke up!

Excellent buying opportunity here.

[bobsidian] 21/9/2011 18:17

crawford

Although there are exceptions, accountants tend not to be the best managers of the day-to-day operations of any business including their own because of their predisposition to be more reactive rather than proactive.

And when you are dealing with a business well versed in the practice of capital reorganisation and restructuring, questions tend to be asked about whether or not they will act in the best interests of the company or the shareholders of that company. You would think that the company and its shareholders should be considered one and the same. Not so when accountants are involved.

BEG or FRP are good examples of businesses orientated toward accountancy related services. Wonderful in theory, awful in practice. The treatment of their respective share prices by the stockmarket says it all.

[crawford] 17/9/2011 08:46

Ironic all this talk centres around the 7th biggest accountancy firm in the UK.

I'm happy to hold as the broker comments were positive here.

[envirovision] 16/9/2011 21:59

bobsidian, profits can be subject to all manner of accounting manipulations, one can never be sure that the reported profits are real. However cash in the bank is usually indisputable.

An easy check is to compare the "cash flow from operations on the cash flow statement to reported profits and when profits do not turn into cash, there is often something questionable.

Remember businesses go bust not because they run out of profits, but because they run out of cash.

[bonio10000] 15/9/2011 08:13

I think it is skewed to H2 due to tax work and December year-ends. The presentation makes, from memory, a 40:60 or 45:55 split.

Also debt reduced from £73m to £68m from H1 to H2. Which is why it is odd people are surprised debt is up. It was up at the Interims !

[rmillaree] 14/9/2011 22:33

It is quite hard work trying to make sense of these annual results and trying to make an evaluation of where the company is going.
It does look like there were an additional £2.4 million of exceptional costs in H2 above the level the company expected at the time of the H1 announcement.
In some respects the H2 figures aren't that terrible, they are just made to look worse when lumped in with the first half of the year.
Looking at H2 alone i have as follows
Underlying Operating profit 16.6 million
Exceptionals and amortisation 6.9 million
Interest 1.8 million
Profit 7.9 million
Add back amortisation of 3.4 million and say 50% of exceptionals say 1.7 million
This gives us a figure a "reasonable adjusted" profits figure of £13 million for H2
Multiply this amount by 2 and we get £26 million which is just a couple of million shy of the broker forecasts we have for 2012

Does anyone know if there is a seasonal bias to the earnings? if H2 is the better half then multiplying H2 by 2 may not give a realistic annual total.

As far as cashflow is concerned the company has managed to reduce the deferred consolidation by £7.5 million and the net debt by £7.5 million in H2.

Apologies is any of the above figures are incorrect as the accounts aren't exactly the easiest to follow.

[bobsidian] 14/9/2011 17:46

Something does not look too right here.

The cash flow statement makes for interesting reading. New loans being used to pay off old loans and rising receivables whilst outgoings are settled sooner than recoveries. Add to that the internal guarantee for a fully utilised facility and were this any other company the assessment would be one of a business in the realms of overtrading.

Little wonder then that an acquisitive CEO admits any future acquisitions will need to be placed on hold. The stockmarket perhaps is now once again pricing in the possibility of another capital raising exercise to ease any internal financial pressures. Whether or not this is correct is a different matter.

[crawford] 14/9/2011 11:52

envirovision,
point taken; I must stress though that I think previous shareholders haven't been best served here but for recent shareholders this looks like being undervalued.

From the research I've read this morning, analysts see these results as being better than they expected so I'm surprised at the fall.

I very firm hold for me here.