Rank Share Discussion Threads

[grizzly bare] 10/7/2009 10:57

we seem to be firmly stuck at 64p or thereabouts.

Grizzly xx

[quidnunc] 10/7/2009 08:21

Wrong side of the clouds.
Solitaire's the only game in town.

Q.

[quidnunc] 09/7/2009 15:01

Still no clear idea of which way the wind bloweth

[quidnunc] 08/7/2009 09:12

Looks like the market wasn't banking on a non-appeal.

[quidnunc] 07/7/2009 21:40

Let it go to the wire didn't they?
Playing for time I suspect.
Q.

[scrapman] 07/7/2009 14:50

what a farce this share is, how many more episodes can they get out of it. ?

What do you think Griz , are we somewhere near support at this level , allowing the share price has not imploded on the news , or is GS lining a sucker punch up

[tonytwotouch] 07/7/2009 09:21

flip side no bear squeeze..but who would be short here and at these levels!!

[grizzly bare] 07/7/2009 09:06

Nice to see the stock on loan figures so low.

Will we know today whether Revenue has appealed or not!!!!!!!!!!

Today is revised deadline for appeal.

Grizzly xx

[loganair] 06/7/2009 13:14

This is the part of the article I liked the best:

"The High Court recently ruled in Rank's favour in two claims against HM Revenue & Customs on overpaid VAT worth about £100 million. Analysts reckon the final tally could top £200 million."

If the £200m turns out to be true, that would be worth over 50p a share.


Stock on loan still falling from 2.99% to a current 2.72%

[quidnunc] 06/7/2009 09:35

7th July tomorrow.
Holding breath...not
Q.

[grizzly bare] 06/7/2009 03:27

This is the existing 18 month downtrend channel



Grizzly xx

[grizzly bare] 06/7/2009 03:15

Long positive article in The Times about Rank.




Grizzly xx

[grizzly bare] 06/7/2009 02:51

The deadline for the appeal has been extended "for technical reasons" to 7th July.

At this stage, Rank are not aware if the Revenue have appealed or not.

As soon as they know anything they will make an announcement.

Grizzly xx

[grizzly bare] 06/7/2009 02:48

Cheers Logan.

Grizzly xx

[loganair] 05/7/2009 10:47

Grizzly - I too could not bring up the Express article via your post so have posted it in full.

Our famously thin-skinned Premier has faced all kinds of taunts in his two catastrophic years of office: incompetent, arrogant, psychologically flawed (and that's just what his own side say).

But if he looked out of the window of the House of Commons on his way to Prime Minister's Questions this week he would have seen a new charge laid against him.
In the blazing heat of Parliament Square a group of mainly elderly protesters – including Alf Carretta, the 92-year-old lead singer of the charity pop group The Zimmers – had gathered to wave banners.

One of the hand-held placards summed up their grievance. "Gordon Brown," it read: "Bingo Killer."

For the 500 demonstrators from as far afield as Yorkshire and South Wales, the Government's latest blundering policy is yet another example of its contempt for the people who put it there. Their biggest beef is what it calls a "double-whammy" form of taxation, under which operators are required to pay VAT at 17.5 per cent – now reduced to 15 per cent – ­followed by Gross Profit Tax (GPT) of a further 15 per cent.

This, they say, makes bingo the most heavily taxed form of gambling in Britain – more heavily hit than betting shops and casinos.

"It's about time this Government stopped taking from the public all the time and started giving," says 66-year-old Delores Murray. She was one of the activists who featured in a BBC programme two years ago called Power To The People, ­protesting at the closure of her local bingo hall in North London, blamed partly on the smoking ban as well as chronic under-investment and the surge in internet gaming.

That public exposure led to the foundation of The Zimmers – but in the meantime the fight to save ­Britain's bingo halls has suddenly stepped up.

"We lost a lot of elderly people since that hall closed down and a lot of ­people that loved their game of bingo have not been out to do hardly anything ever since," says Delores. "It was the Government's fault then, what with the taxation and the smoking ban and now they're doing it again. This Government has done so many terrible things but if I could get to meet Gordon Brown now I'd tell him exactly what I think about the way he's hurting a lot of elderly ­people that love a little game of bingo."

One million people in Britain play bingo at least three times a week and up to five million people are occasional players. It's widely agreed to be a convivial form of "soft" gambling – only three per cent of players have a bingo "problem" – which provides a safe, supportive environment for vulnerable people who might otherwise never get out of the house.

It's also a vibrant family-friendly activity that's as essential for community cohesion as it was in bingo's post-war heyday. But it's now under threat from a taxation policy that bingo operators insist amounts to blatant discrimination.

In the past three years nearly 100 bingo halls have closed – about 15 per cent of the total in Britain.

Nigel ­Griffiths, an independent operator from Llanelli who brought 35 of his customers by coach to Wednesday's protest, says he will be one of the next unless the latest swingeing Treasury rules are changed. "In the past three years there has been a great collision of problems," he says. "The smoking ban took about 20 per cent of our customers and we have lost some of the younger ones to online bingo. Then the Government changed the types of machines we could operate and burdened us with more expenses to pay for their new Gambling Commission, which the online gaming companies don't have to pay for because they operate offshore."

The Government was forced to ­cancel the double levy of both VAT and GPT in this year's Budget when the bingo operator Rank Group brought a test case. But then Chancellor Alistair Darling dropped his bombshell. He raised GPT on bingo from 15 to 22 per cent.

"There was no warning at all – it came completely out of the blue," says Steve Baldwin of the Bingo Association.

"There had been heavy dialogue between the ­Treasury and the gambling industry, including independent operators via the Bingo Association and the two largest operators Mecca and Gala Coral, for more than five years."

Now, he says, operators will have two choices if they are to meet the increased burden of tax. "They can either shut up shop because it's no longer profitable for them to run, or they have to pass a proportion of the cost on to the ­players, which means their prize money may be reduced – never a ­popular move for a bingo player – or the cost of their ticket may increase."

Gala Coral is talking about closing at least six of its 156 clubs as a result of the Chancellor's new policy and for Nigel Griffiths in Llanelli the situation is just as stark. "My profits have dropped by 75 per cent over the past three years and without the support of my landlord cutting the rent and the council cutting the rates, as well as loyal customers who didn't dissent when I told them I had to put the prices up and staff who were forced to have their hours cut, I would already have closed," he says. "If that happens there will be an impact on the wider community as the elderly and vulnerable get more isolated."

Aside from the social cost, the figures show that over-taxing bingo halls is financially senseless. Closures mean that Treasury receipts from bingo have gone down from £84million in 2005 to £62million last year. Higher taxes seem to mean lower revenues.

"Bingo halls are as much a part of the community as post offices, village halls and the traditional pub and ­Gordon Brown needs to wake up to that," says Tobias Ellwood, Conservative shadow minister for gambling. "We support properly regulated ­gambling but bingo has been hit by a double whammy in taxation. There comes a threshold when there's too much tax and it's not viable to run a business. We have already seen 100 of them shut, with just 600 left, and a lot of those are on the verge because they just can't make things work."

Government policy, that notoriously favoured "supercasinos" in a shake-up of the gambling sector designed to turn Blackpool into Las Vegas, is utterly contradictory, he says – and part of the problem is that different departments aren't talking to each other.

"The Department of Culture, Media and Sport, which is responsible for gambling policy, confirmed to me that there had been no communication with the Treasury when this announcement was made," says Ellwood. "It took DCMS by surprise and that isn't the way government should work. There are some areas that need tweaking in the full spread of gambling but bingo isn't one of them. It is a soft form of a gambling and should be treated accordingly."

Delores Murray agrees. "Why can't they be fair?" she demands. "I don't understand what they've got against bingo. The bookies and football pools are taxed at only 15 per cent so why should bingo pay more? "It's one of the last remaining pleasures for a lot of people. We can meet up and have a laugh in a safe place and for many of us it's a reason to get out of the house. If the club closes we'll have nowhere else to go."

[scrapman] 04/7/2009 12:29

is it a specific article Griz ? can't seem to see anything

[grizzly bare] 04/7/2009 06:33

Grizzly xx

[grizzly bare] 04/7/2009 05:16

Don't think you'll get any response from Rank

However have fired off an email this morning to both Rank and The Times asking if they have any news.

Grizzly xx

[scrapman] 03/7/2009 10:52

any point in having a go at Rank themselves ,

"in the intrests of clarity of disclosure " etc ,

, with it being such a big amount it must have to be a material fact to the market

[grizzly bare] 03/7/2009 09:31

Well when are we gonna find out if the Revenue appealed by the 29 June deadline or not.

Surely somebody knows!

Grizzly xx

[grizzly bare] 03/7/2009 06:12

Grizzly xx

[grizzly bare] 03/7/2009 06:03

Tony ...couldn't agree more.

I had thought Blue Square was gonna be Ranks real growth/profit winner.

What an underperformance so far.

Grizzly xx