Phoenix Share Discussion Threads

[woodhawk] 18/10/2019 12:47

You do wonder why they bother. Hope you're doing well Gary? I've taken a fair chunk off the table over the last couple of days - see what transpires over the weekend re Johnson's dodgy deal.

[garycook] 18/10/2019 12:41

Peel Hunt are useless.More nearer the mark if they gave a 805p PT.

[woodhawk] 18/10/2019 12:34

FWIW Noticed this from Peel Hunt, issued today:

18 Oct Phoenix Group Holdings Peel Hunt Reduce 717.95 - 605.00 Initiates/Starts

[pj fozzie] 16/10/2019 11:39

How do interest rates impact the valuation of Phoenix? i.e. If interest rates were to rise in the UK, would that be positive, negative or neutral for the share price?

Cheers,
PJ

[edmundshaw] 16/10/2019 11:14

Perhaps good news for eurozone bonds that Italy's Salvini no longer seeks to exit the euro. Which might have caused moderate chaos if it had actually transpired...
www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/10/16/italys-salvini-throws-towel-euroscepticism-following-lead-frances/

[edmundshaw] 16/10/2019 11:12

The rally in financials was reportedly exacerbated by short covering in the market. So some softening is natural unless there is more "positive" news about a deal.

As for whether negotiations will be easier or better after a withdrawal treaty, I don't think it is that obvious - there are arguments both ways; but I agree this is not the place to discuss it, other than the market's take on it. Clearly the city and in particular international financial institutions are happier (for now at least) with a treaty of some form, and as much continuity and visibility as possible.

[jonwig] 15/10/2019 17:01

They do hold a few eurozone bonds, so it shouldn't be working like that!

I guess stronger pound is just a sign of Brexit-positive sentiment, and so is this.

[kenmitch] 15/10/2019 16:58

Partly that. But main reason is Brexit latest. Nearly all the bombed out big dividend paying UK shares soared last Friday when deal looked likely, and they have done the same today for same reason. Brexit is key reason such shares have done so badly relative to other markets ever since the Brexit vote in 2016. So any outcome other than no deal could well see these shares rally a lot further.

But even a hint of no deal outcome and recent fast gains likely to be lost as quickly as they’ve come!

Also worth pointing out is the actual meaning of no deal since many commentators and politicians don’t seem to realise it.

Whether a deal or no deal, the next stage is the same. i.e several years of negotiations. The deal or no deal is simply the initial withdrawal stage. No deal will mean negotiations in bad blood, and a deal with both sides far more co-operative with each other. Hence the effort on both sides to get a deal.

This post is simply explaining the fairly obvious. There is NO point it leading to a load of pro Brexit or pro Remain ranting posts, because as far as our investments are concerned what matters is NOT what we think but what the market thinks.

AND the share price moves today and last Friday show that clearly.

[pj fozzie] 15/10/2019 16:44

I presume it's the pound exchange rate that's driving phoenix up? Would that be correct? If so, why is Phoenix exchange rate sensitive?

Cheers,
PJ

[skinny] 15/10/2019 09:40

Over 7 quid again for now.

[edmundshaw] 03/10/2019 15:39

Half reinvested at 651p. I have no idea why I did that right now, other than I had the dividend cash sitting in the ISA begging to earn something...

[fenners66] 03/10/2019 11:40

eurofox
30 Sep '19 - 20:39 - 3490 of 3492

"need a decent drop here"

Be careful what you wish for.......

[actybod] 03/10/2019 11:22

I did say a month or so I was waiting for 650. But shall sit on hands for now.

[rcturner2] 03/10/2019 10:56

Back at 650p again, I wonder if PHNX can go even lower?

This is a very weak market at present.

[eurofox] 30/9/2019 20:39

need a decent drop here

[my retirement fund] 30/9/2019 19:28

Never seem to get reinvested at the right time do they. Share price knocking on £ seven again !

[skinny] 30/9/2019 14:42

Dividend received!

[santangello] 29/9/2019 21:52

Back from xd in the morning, should help......and reinvested dividends going in the buy column will help too.

[santangello] 19/9/2019 09:12

Looks like the next leg up is gaining traction.......

My chart guru (I don't use them myself) tells me these look strong for a breakout to 720p very quickly.

Allowing for the fact we are xd, I'd say that was a positive observation ?

[jonwig] 14/9/2019 15:51

Mas - everything been going up the last few trading days.

• EU stimulus,
• US/China war on hold
• lest we forget, maybe a Brexit deal.

[jonwig] 14/9/2019 15:46

Rothesay Life has raised £900m of fresh capital to back a surge in new business and played down the possibility that it might float on the stock market.

The privately owned insurer said on Tuesday it had signed £4.4bn of deals this year, with more in the pipeline.

Like rivals such as Legal & General and Pension Insurance Corporation, Rothesay takes on pension schemes from companies that no longer want to run them, via deals known as bulk annuities.

The market has been booming this year as pension scheme deficits have fallen. The insurers will only take on fully funded schemes.

Addy Loudiadis, Rothesay’s chief executive, said the company had “the biggest pension pipeline we’ve ever seen”.

Rothesay said it expects to write more than £10bn of new business in 2019, a big jump on the £1bn of pension deals signed last year. It also anticipates finishing the year as the third-biggest annuity provider in the UK.

To back the new business, the company has raised £500m in equity from existing shareholders and £400m in a bond issue.

Rothesay is owned by Blackstone, Singaporean sovereign wealth fund GIC and MassMutual, the US-based insurer. All three contributed to the fundraising.

Rothesay has often been seen as a candidate for an initial public offering but Ms Loudiadis said the support of these shareholders meant it did not need to consider a flotation. “It is unclear that public investors understand the complexities [of insurance companies],” she said.

“In August, four deals came up and we won them because we could call up and secure the capital from our shareholders,” she added. “Imagine [raising this money] publicly. How could we guarantee to trustees that we’d have the cash?”

ReAssure, a life insurance business that operates in similar markets, attempted to float in July but owner Swiss Re pulled the £3bn IPO citing weak demand from investors.

Rothesay had a setback last month when the High Court blocked the proposed transfer of £12bn of annuities from fellow insurer Prudential after complaints from customers.

In a ruling some lawyers described as “unprecedented”, the judge said customers might have chosen Prudential because of its age, reputation and diversification, and that Rothesay did not have the same sort of reputation.

Ms Loudiadis said Rothesay was “disappointed” with the ruling, and that it was considering whether to appeal.

Hymans Robertson, a consultancy, has forecast a record year for the bulk annuity market. It expects £30bn of pension promises to be transferred in 2019, passing the previous record of £24bn set in 2018.

[masurenguy] 11/9/2019 09:00

Good to see PHNX resume an upward trajectory, especially on average daily volumes, over the past 2 weeks with a 7% rise over this period.

[jonwig] 27/8/2019 14:45

Ahhh ... but look lower down the RNS, and it's Threadneedle Asset Management who have taken the shares. TAM were a venerable City institution who seem now to be based in Luxembourg. And owned by Ameriprise.

This gives the company structure:



I'm tremendously heartened that such a company can increase its holding by 1.14 ppt.

[tournesol] 27/8/2019 13:04

RNS out today saying that Ameriprise has just increased its holding from 4.8% to a whisker under 6%.

I'd never heard of Ameriprise but a quick google tells me that is is the demerged financial services business of AMEX and it is a very big beast with a lot of assets under management. Its website is appalingly lacking in clarity but it looks like they manage client money, run various funds and offer annuities. Given their size - m cap = $16 billion, they look like a pretty serious investor which is taking advantage of sterling weakness to pick up solid assets.

I would expect that in the event of a meltdown in UK markets and/or sterling, we will see a lot of this kind of thing.

See RNS at