Phaunos Timber Share Discussion Threads

[odvod] 28/3/2012 05:56

no construction, huge supply as it is easy cash for the timberland owners

[lionheart79] 27/3/2012 22:56

What's up with the timber funds lately?

[bolador] 19/10/2011 07:45

Graph forming a lovely flag in an unhurried sort of way. There has been good turnover recently together with a release of detailed info on the portfolio
Current discount to nav 40%, fully invested now and pays divi. Have puffed myself in..

[jonwig] 12/8/2011 09:44

Yes, is USD cents.

I see TREE has been weak, too. PTF is surely preferable, as TREE is heavily geared, loss-making and is paying dividends out of borrowings. I'm putting weakness down to fears about global growth.

[topvest] 12/8/2011 09:33

It's in cents I believe.

[lavagrouch] 12/8/2011 09:06

Am i right in thinking that the share price indicated on ADVFN is in Dollars / Cents rather than Pounds / Pence? Barclays showing 41 / 42p, ADVFN at the same time showing 0.67.

[topvest] 28/6/2011 13:23

I hold both as well now. Timber looks a reasonable investment at this point in the cycle I think. Bought TREE because SCAM are large holders, albeit they paid way too much at £1 a share.

[jonwig] 28/6/2011 13:03

topvest - I hold a few of these, and have held the alternative, TREE.

TREE has debt and has been paying divis out of capital, but it appears to have a lower cost base.

PTF is a much larger outfit than TREE, so the shares ought to have more liquidity.

[topvest] 28/6/2011 12:14

I've added some of these today. They look quite attractive, given the discount, $ exchange rate and the 2c dividend.

[gb904150] 20/4/2011 11:20

hi strelna,

fair points. I note this however from the Annual Financial report:

The Investment Manager is examining each operating unit to identify cost reduction strategies in the Company's holdings, and expects to streamline operations and concentrate the Company's investment footprint over the coming year. This may result in the sale or consolidation of some investments, with the aim to increase efficiency. It is important to note that, consistent with IFRS guidelines, wholly-owned operating company expenses are included in the Consolidated Statement of Comprehensive Income, in addition to the Company level expenses. This can be misleading when one tries to compute the expense ratio of the Company, since those expenses are, in fact, not Company-level expenses and should not be included in an analysis of Company-level expenses.

i've just tried to make sense of 'note 32' of the report. What a ridiculously complicated system. I'll need to look at it again later.

[strelna] 20/4/2011 07:08

I just can't get past the TER, which I believe is 3.47% - and I do not know whether that even includes the performance fee (not yet payable). I was liking everything I saw and was ready to buy after the results (with a director) today but seeing that TER just stopped me dead. I like fund managers who view investors as partners and the TER and 'performance fee' (why would you not expect a well-remunerated manager to attempt to perform?) leaves me unconvinced that is the case here.

I am not a milch cow. Instead I want to be a fully paid up equal partner in a successful business. Read the Letters to Shareholders of Berkshire Hathaway, directors of PTF! The annualised return is over 20% and the manager is paid a flat $100,000 salary. His job is his incentive and he is a billionaire as a result. Now that's value, and partnership. As a result, Berkshire gets a little more of my 'cautious' money today, not you, whatever the discount.

[gb904150] 18/4/2011 10:08

Not as great timing as my October 09 purchase....but given the 1.6 GBP:USD rate, this is still a good price i reckon.

[gb904150] 18/4/2011 10:07

Well, on today's announcement i've treated myself to a few more.

Very positive news. An increasing NAV. Other gains yet to be realised. A maiden dividend of 2.5% - not to be sniffed at.

Excellent worldwide diversification, currency diversification, inflation protection, plus a management team who seem to know what they are doing.

Still approx 30% discount to NAV. But those full NAV of assets are producing!

PTF snaffled up a whole portfolio of forestry at a time when prices were reasonably depressed. I figure this is a great long term play.

On the downside - the US housing market still in the doldrums. Mismanagement risk, fire risk and i guess currency risk (although i see it as diversification).

[gb904150] 11/8/2010 09:50

amt - that's pretty poor. I've always liked Selftrade's dealing page, with a quoted price at market. It then tells you how far you dealt inside the spread and thus saved on that transaction.

Only thing I find limited with ST is that foreign markets are limited and when they are quoted, all prices are translated back to GBP. I much prefer TDW in that respect, with their numerous markets and flexibility for multiple currencies.

I also like that TDW are a relatively well run Canadian firm, backed by Canadian banks. The Can$ (CAD) is one of the few currencies with decent fundamentals.

Hope you manage to pick up some PTF! For GBP buyers I figure they're at a very attractive price. With the £:$ at almost 1:1.6 and still a significant discount to NAV, seems a good bet.

[amt] 30/7/2010 08:50

GB Thanks for the info. I use Barclays on line site and "at best" there means that you submit your order and they execute it later but you dont know what price you will get. I cannot put a limit on it either. I tried other site HL and Sipdeal and they dont even recognise the ticker "PTF".

[gb904150] 27/7/2010 17:19

Even when you buy at best, do you not get quoted a price? When I buy 'at best' or 'at market' via Selftrade or TDW I get quoted a price which I then have 15 secs or so to accept.

Worked ok for me.

[amt] 27/7/2010 08:30

I tried to buy some but only can buy at best which is hopeless. Anyone got any hints on how to buy these in a PEP or SIPP.

[gb904150] 26/7/2010 07:17

PTF doesn't get many mentions. There's a short one here



I still think this is not a bad place to be. Plenty of value above net assets and if the economy's struggling you let the trees grow.

[gb904150] 22/12/2009 21:51

Despite what looks like excellent progress with acquisitions, the 'strategic review' was pathetic. The idea was for PTF's mcap to reflect its NAV more closely.

The initial review RNS gave the +30% boost to the share price The fact that almost all those gains have been given up since the final announcement shows what the market thinks of the suggested actions.

In honesty - the actions were pretty weak/nondescript:

- market making support
- increased investor communications
- occasional share buybacks

oh well....still better than holding EUR/GBP.

[jebenn1] 09/12/2009 11:33

Well done on the 60c buys, hope not to dip down that low again but as you say in the long term the value will be realised so am relatively relaxed if it is a little volatile in the short term.

[gb904150] 08/12/2009 20:04

I'm pretty certain their funds are held in US treasuries. I would much rather they be held in trees (but not via paper).

I got in at 60c which is probably one of my better pieces of timing. Shortly after they mentioned the 'review' which boosted share price up to 80c.

I'd rather hold money here, in USD rather than GBP, in a fund at a significant discount to NAV, with plenty of cash on the sidelines ready to snap up value investments. The worst that can happen if the economy remains subdued is they let the timber grow in value and harvest it in 10 years time.

I'll have another dabble for my ISA as soon as she steadies.

[jebenn1] 08/12/2009 15:03

Have just bought a small number of shares for my ISA having watched these since around the time of the Oct jump from 60's lows.

Although I may be caught out catching a falling knife I believe that when the board do actually start to try reducing the discount to NAV there may be a modest jump upwards which I don't want to miss.

A small concern I have is to where exactly the cash funds have been held, don't wish to find out that they had a bundle of cash in an Icelandic bank! Unlikely I know but will be happier when they are more fully invested.

A stronger dollar would greatly benefit them in their investments obviously.

I intend to be a long term holder, buying more on any dips.

Good luck to all.

[gb904150] 03/12/2009 16:58

I'm pretty sure a regular (small) divi is the long term aim.

'The Company expects to generate cash flow to meet working capital requirements, with any surplus netincome potentially to be distributed by way of dividend payments, by the harvest and sale of timber growing on invested properties or investment vehicles, as well as through secondary sources of return from those properties and investment vehicles.'

[notanewmember2] 01/12/2009 22:30

Having a look at this - a regular dividend would make me interested.

[gb904150] 14/10/2009 21:11

Encouraging strategic view to narrow the discount to NAV.

Share repurchase? Cash return? At the very least they need to start making deals a little more quickly.

Glad to see shareholder pressure achieved that. Clearly a few fund managers unhappy here at the horrific performance so far. Especially for such a conservative investment.

First rule of investing is not to lose money....

Am I on my own here?