Pcf Share Discussion Threads

[geraldus] 23/12/2021 07:10

Looks like one small step this morning.

[dandigirl] 22/12/2021 07:43

Saw the fines levied on StanChart a few days ago and Metro this a.m.

Surely something must be coming for PCF albeit reduced for the confession.

[graham1ty] 20/12/2021 22:08

I find it inconceivable there will not be some Circular with the announcement. And then a vote, approving the accounts or whatever restructuring or fund raising is required.

Trading would start after that vote, presumably an EGM. So, even if an announcement tomorrow (🙏) I would not expect trading to start for three weeks ( and allowing for bank holidays that will actually be a month)

[georgelees] 20/12/2021 16:05

"A further announcement regarding these [March 2021] results will be made in due course"

- can't see how they can do that until they have the 2020 ones out of the way.

[georgelees] 20/12/2021 16:03

You are probably right I am used to being disappointed. I was thinking they might want to surprise on the upside for once!

"-- The finalisation of the Assessment will be shortly after publication of 2020
annual report and accounts.

-- The publication of the 2020 annual report and accounts is expected to be late
December / early January.

-- The publication of the interim results to 31 March 2021 is expected to be as soon
as possible following the filing of the 2020 annual report and accounts. A further
announcement regarding these results will be made in due course."

Would we expect them to effectively all be at once and the trading to start immediately after? Or would you expect them to be staggered?

Presumably just a guess.

[seasidehippo] 20/12/2021 15:38

Dream on!! My guess, for what its worth, is 2nd or 3rd week in January.

[georgelees] 20/12/2021 11:24

In my book this is now definitely 'late December'.....

[hopespr1ngseternal] 17/12/2021 00:19

Graham: thank you for your excellent forensic work. My only qualification would be that the process and the paper trail you refer to cannot officially reflect unpublished information for obvious reasons.

[georgelees] 16/12/2021 13:43

Thanks, interesting. We are nearly entering the end of December. Lets hope they decide to over deliver for once and get it done before Christmas.

[dandigirl] 15/12/2021 15:16

G: Thank you for taking the trouble to do this. I, and I am sure others, appreciate what you have done. Excellent stuff.

[cc2014] 15/12/2021 11:33

Hi Graham,

I agree with everything you've written. For sure, Somers and UIL are audited by one of the big four and will have to have justified to the auditors satisfaction the valuation of the investments.

From my personal point of view though this reflects everything that is wrong with the audit world. Somehow UIL have and KPMG have found some accounting rule that means they can value the stake is Somers at higher than they can sell it for in the open market. Of course the quoted price on the exchange is only one valuation method and we do not know the detail

Out of interest I looked up the NAV of Lloyds. It's 52.3p in the last set of accounts and LLOY is currently trading at 45.1p. Should investments trusts therefore use a figure higher than 45.1p in their books. I think not. It doesn't make sense, yet apparently that is allwowed under the accounting rules if the stock is illiquid, which again makes no sense to me as trying to shift a large stake in an illiquid stock can't usually be done at market price, but instead a lower one.


I'm drifting off topic though. The main point is that the value in the books of Somers for PCF has not been written down to some horrible number and therefore we some decent hope for shareholders that when the suspension is lifted the share price will not be destroyed. It would be nice to think we might see an RNS before the Xmas break

[graham1ty] 15/12/2021 09:56

CC, you can argue about what NAV really is. However, as a generalisation, proper audit firms, and quoted companies are meant to be making their best attempt at a valuation. You may argue that it is too high, or too low, but for the Company and the auditors, they will have gone through a process, with a paper trail, of how they got to that valuation.

Now, of course, the corporate world is littered with examples where valuations have been entirely wrong, through misguided assumptions, or straight fraud. But those should be the exception rather than the rule.

Somers are not audited by some Mickey Mouse auditor, but KPMG ( “Mickey Mouse, I hear a few cry” !!!!!). And, with PCF suspended, one has to assume they have asked specific questions about that valuation, and made the internal auditors and the Board of Somers justify maintaining that valuation.

Or so one would hope......

[cc2014] 15/12/2021 09:15

The Somers valuation I see as optimistic for all shareholders here. Good news indeed.


However, just a caveat so we have a full picture. The Somers/ICM/UIL/UEM interconnected web of companies plough their own furrow when it comes to valuation.

For example UTL who have 40% of their investments in Somers value Somers as follows. Extract from an RNS:

The Board of UIL Limited ("UIL" or the "Company") announces that the Company will move to valuing its investment in Somers Limited ("Somers") at its net asset value ("NAV"). This will lead to an increase in UIL's reported NAV. For example, had this valuation approach been adopted for UIL's NAV as at 28 June 2021, announced earlier today, the reported NAV of 395.11p per share would have increased to 435.09p per share.

The low level of transaction volume in Somers' shares led to UIL, earlier this year, moving away from valuing Somers at its share price to a valuation at a 15% discount to Somers' NAV. UIL also stated that it intended to reduce such discount later in the year. In light of accounting best practice and continuing low volumes in Somers' shares, it is therefore now considered appropriate to move to valuing UIL's investment in Somers at its underlying NAV and this will commence with UIL's NAV as at 29 June 2021, to be announced tomorrow."

Now, to my mind the investment should be valued at the value the Somers shares are trading at. Using a different higher number because the investment is trading at a discount to NAV to me is completely wrong. Their auditor must be quite accomodating. Very accomodating. I think the world would fall apart if every investment company went round valuing it's investments at higher than the price the investment is trading at. (especially with large stakes in illiquid companies)

[graham1ty] 15/12/2021 08:00

I think we have looked at the Somers valuation in previous quarters, so I may be repeating the historic valuations:
Q1 ( to Dec 31st as they have September y/e) PCF holding valued at $55.8m ( announced 11 Feb
Q2 (to Mar 31, announced 21 May) valued at $44.6
Q3 ( to June 30, announced 9 Aug) “written down” but no value disclosed
Q4 ( to end Sept, announced yesterday) valued at $37.5m

[graham1ty] 15/12/2021 07:52

If you scroll through the Somers results, you get to a valuation for PCF. They are valuing their holding at $37.5m. If you gross that up ( they hold 64.4%) you get to c$56.5m. In sterling c£42m.

Divide that by 250m shares in issue, and you have 16.7p per share.

Somers will know what is going on better than anyone else. They have had multiple chances to write this down. Surely their own accounting rules ( they are listed) would require a true and fair valuation of their holding, especially as they are reporting Net Asset Value primarily, as an investment company ?

Straw firmly clutched

[hopespr1ngseternal] 14/12/2021 19:35

As we’re doing Hamlet’s soliloquy who knows what dreams may come when Hippo thinks of PCF.

[cc2014] 14/12/2021 10:59

Somers annouces it's results for y/e Sept 2021



It gives no direct clue as to how they have valued PCF. One could if one was minded try and work out the values of the other known holdings and see what's left.

[cc2014] 14/12/2021 10:43

Seasons greetings to you all.

Results for y/e Sept 2020 are promised for late Dec / early January.

I am hopeful that the FD and CEO will be wanting to under promise and over deliver so maybe they will pop up soon.


Then we can move on to Sept 2021 and a trading update.

[seasidehippo] 14/12/2021 09:52

"To be or not to be" Hamlet's soliloquy

[hopespr1ngseternal] 14/12/2021 05:08

Dandi: true - I am very self-styled. Have to be on one’s toes on this board. That’s for sure.

[seasidehippo] 13/12/2021 17:09

"A record £4bn was spent making TV shows in the UK in the past year - almost double the figure before the pandemic" (BBC News page). This may suggest the steam may not have gone out of Azule's market. The Azule-finance Linkedin page is worth a view IMO Try it with a glass of port and mince pie to help pass some more time!!

[dandigirl] 13/12/2021 15:52

We are all agreed then. It is utterly pointless to speculate further.

Indeed, much written here these past many months has been pointless speculation. It has help pass the time, though.

That said, I am interested to read all your views and thoughts whenever we finally get to hear something meaningful.

hopes: we are all self-styled, including you. :)

A great Christmas to all.

[hopespr1ngseternal] 12/12/2021 15:42

Hippo: agreed - utterly pointless!

[seasidehippo] 12/12/2021 11:28

IMO its pointless speculating!! the share price will largely be determined by the market's opinion regarding forecasts; outlook and management team. How and when this is presented will be crucial
“I will honour Christmas in my heart, and try to keep it all the year. I will live in the Past, the Present, and the Future. The Spirits of all Three shall strive within me. I will not shut out the lessons that they teach.”

[hopespr1ngseternal] 11/12/2021 22:53

We should all bear in mind that the share price was around 30p before sellers front-running the bad news pushed it down to the suspension price of 24p. If BV is now 20p and sustainable profit is in the region of 5m this would justify a share price around 15p after the dust settles, i.e down about 50% from 30p. Just saying…..