Patisserie Share Discussion Threads

[phowdo] 10/10/2018 14:13

Peter Principle. Thats how.

This smells like another SID or CVR now.

[funkmasterp12] 10/10/2018 14:13

I honestly don't understand how that could happen.

[johnwise] 10/10/2018 14:06

Chairman Luke Johnson is Patisserie Holdings largest shareholder with a 37 per cent stake.

[funkmasterp12] 10/10/2018 14:05

Er, oh wow. This is developing very quickly. So now, today, the Directors have become aware of a winding up order against the main holding company. Here's a link to the order:

[sleepy] 10/10/2018 13:56

Note 18 shows the total lease liability not the annual amounts.

[rich1980p] 10/10/2018 13:49

Sleepy look at note 18. Maybe the current period expense is low due to rent frees and ramp up of new stores either way they have just had some big cash flows out the door

[owenski] 10/10/2018 13:42

This'll tank when it exits suspension, sub 300 imo, rightly so.

[owenski] 10/10/2018 13:41

As the comments above said, one couldn't see this coming, but the valuation was always punchy so shouldn't have been bought, I guess more astute investors stayed away for that reason alone, it's only a retailer after all not a software company.

[sleepy] 10/10/2018 13:36

rich1980p - last years accounts don’t say annual rent is circa £70 million. Note 4 shows operating lease rentals of c £14 million for the year

[rich1980p] 10/10/2018 13:28

It is quite possible that there is zero cash in the business atm and is struggling to pay suppliers someone has asked question why not and a junior person has said we are skint. Circa 30m of cash at half year BUT it will have just faced two big bills 1. rent for quarter end 25/9 notes to last years accounts say annual rent is circa 70m so that’s say 17m out in the last fortnight. 2. October payroll circa 4m 3. Since paid interim dividend say 1.5 4. Ongoing capex say 5m (estimate from half year). Important to remember that a chunk of the balance reported as cash won’t be in the bank account as it’s due from credit card payment companies etc etc so it just sits there as reconciling item on bank rec reported as cash but on any given day you haven’t got it. Also see auditors report last year end quotes big audit risk of revenue recognition and multiple revenue streams if these haven’t been reconciled regularly (which is not unusual but not right in fast growing businesses) again its highly possible that these have been booked as sales but the cash not received as its sat as a reconciling item. So my suspicion is they have run out of cash and someone has asked why can’t we pay suppliers and the truth has come out.

[martinc] 10/10/2018 13:27

I always puzzle about this. How could you even think you could do a multi-million fraud and not get caught out eventually? Most of these people are not poorly paid in the first place either.

Does anyone know what happened to the chap from Globo? Has he been caught, or is he quietly on a beach somewhere with a false moustache and a bottle of champagne?

I can imagine you could do a small scale fraud.. maybe get a mate to set up a window cleaning company or whatever, and submit inflated invoices for "cleaning" windows that never actually get a wipe. Perhaps it starts that way and some sort of addiction takes over, enticing you to more grandiose schemes.

[tomboyb] 10/10/2018 12:34

If the Auditors are not actually doing their jobs then the question arises -

what exactly are they doing? -

Having a bit of cake?

[johnwise] 10/10/2018 12:23

Mark Brumby, an analyst at Langton Capital, said: “There’s been some sort of fairy dust sprinkled on this company’s valuation for some time.

“Having a share price at 23 times earnings for a cake shop is just crazy. But nobody could have seen this coming. Clearly you have to be asking questions of the auditors.”

The revelation thrusts auditor Grant Thornton into the spotlight after a string of audit blunders which have recently made headlines including outsourcer Carillion’s collapse, with KPMG and Deloitte being criticised for missing red flags. The black hole echoes the unexpected implosion of Conviviality this year.

AJ Bell’s Russ Mould said: “This latest episode is incredibly damaging for investor sentiment towards corporate reporting transparency in general.”

[tomboyb] 10/10/2018 12:07

Those directors who sold shares should be made to return the profits to the company for the time period these errors were occurring .

That will never happen but this shocking by all standards and it certainly does not look like an Ashtead -

[haroldthegreat] 10/10/2018 11:57

Luke should give the proceeds of his books to the company . Those directors who sold shares should be made to return the profits to the company for the time period these errors were occurring .

[haroldthegreat] 10/10/2018 11:54

Someone who heard about having fingers in the till purchased a fork lift truck to do it on a larger scale ? Perhaps the invoice for the fork lift truck stuck out like a sore thumb in the audit ?

[pugugly] 10/10/2018 11:48

lets think how £20M plus could have gone walkies - Easiest way is possily to have failed to book suppliers invoices to the bought ledger and carried them over in a drawer until the start of the next accounting period.

However with revenue running at £10M per month this is unlikely to account for the whole of the difference -
Other possible sources could be errors on the VAT and Social security accouts or errors on PAYE,

Any of the above could rapidly drain cash as payments were made relating to previous accounting years

Other thoughts?

[haroldthegreat] 10/10/2018 11:37

Does that mean gayles may make a takeover bid for cake rather than cake for gayles.Perhaps the 20 million was for the takeover ?

[barvin] 10/10/2018 11:26

Just out of interest, for those crypto experts out there. Could you open say 5 crypto wallets and put £4m in each account if you hold the keys to the bank accounts and make it vanish in the world of crypto?

[barvin] 10/10/2018 11:21

A £1.50 open looks likely if it comes back imo.

[verulamium] 10/10/2018 11:20

FD came from Fishworks. It's a very distant memory, but wasn't there something fishy about their accounts too before they finally floundered? Claimed to be making money but clearly weren't. Obviously a change from being the fish counter to cake counter didn't change his ways.