Patisserie Share Discussion Threads

[augustusgloop] 16/1/2019 16:57

I don't see why they can't produce a reliable trading outlook.

Yes - it may take ages to see what really went on in the past.

But for the last 3 months - the shop sales figures should be accurate.
The ongoing costs should be known.

Should be easy to make a decent estimation of yearly revenue and EBITDA.

[bookbroker] 16/1/2019 16:53

Most probably will not even be sufficient funds to even pay all outstanding bills at this rate!

[bookbroker] 16/1/2019 16:52

They won’t, there will charges placed against them in time!

[masurenguy] 16/1/2019 16:48

I've never been a shareholder here but if I was I would want to go after May and Morris to repay the £1m and the £667K that they made from cashing in their share options last July. The shareprice was then predicated on fraudulent financial information published in the public domain and as the two senior executives they are both responsible for presiding over the at fraudulent situation even if they are not culpable of any criminal offence. Why should they be allowed to profit from a fraud that has stuffed all of the shareholders?

[jotoha2] 16/1/2019 16:48

Grant thornton should of known that their high margins were just pie in the sky , as should of LJ , it does rather stink of corruption at the highest level.

[sikhthetech] 16/1/2019 16:43

Probably won't return from suspension before summer then..



"“Among other manipulations, this involved thousands of false entries into the Company's ledgers. It will take some time before a reliable trading outlook can be completed while the above work streams progress."

[valhamos] 16/1/2019 16:35

phowdo Too true. How can the auditors miss 'thousands of false entries' which resulted in extensive "misstatement of its accounts" and "involving very significant manipulation of the balance sheet and profit and loss accounts".

This really is staggering. What's the point of an audit?

[thegreatgeraldo] 16/1/2019 16:35

phowdo
16 Jan '19 - 16:29 - 2489 of 2490

. He of course couldnt have known it was a fraud. The £50M he banked at the IPO was all above board too.

....Quite possible that early doors, when they only had a few outlets in prime locations, the margins were decent. Maybe the novelty wore off in those early outlets & the idea of a high margin cake shop was only ever a niche business & didn't stand up to a large scale roll-out?

[sikhthetech] 16/1/2019 16:34

Not good...
Yes, odd how extensive the fraud really is...
I think Grant Thornton have a lot of explaining to do..

[clocktower] 16/1/2019 16:29

Problem is the Courts back company auditors and a host of accountants when they appear as Officers of The Courts in liquidation cases no matter how they acted against the interests of creditors etc. There are cases in which they have committed perjury, and yet The Courts ignore their actions rather than hold them to account as they are "professional" people - as though they are able, honest and have integrity,rather than jail them and find in favour of those that accuse these "professional" classes, that should be held to account and forced to repay investors for their failings.

[phowdo] 16/1/2019 16:29

Pure coincidence that LJ was immediately repaid his £10M bridge loan after the emergency fundraise was completed. He of course couldnt have known it was a fraud. The £50M he banked at the IPO was all above board too.

[thegreatgeraldo] 16/1/2019 16:25

So current year EBITDA looks likely to be "materially below" £12 million......

[phowdo] 16/1/2019 16:07

One wonders what the auditors were doing when this extensive fraud was ongoing...

[montyhedge] 16/1/2019 16:04

Will they ever be re-listed ?

[thegreatgeraldo] 16/1/2019 16:04

& that 12th Oct update...

.." The Directors estimate that based on current run rate information available, annual revenue and EBITDA, before exceptional one off costs, for the year ending 30 September 2019 could be approximately £120 million and £12 million,"

[danny baker] 16/1/2019 16:03

Nice of the institutions to bail CAKE out at 50p a share. Now looking as if the shares are worth 20p at most. All the fictitious ledger entries brings back memories of Polly Peck

[thegreatgeraldo] 16/1/2019 16:01

"The initial indications from the work carried out to date is that the cash flow and profitability of the business has been overstated in the past and is materially below that announced in the trading update on 12 October 2018"

...Ouch!

[zho] 16/1/2019 15:55

Update:

The work carried out by the Company's forensic accountants since then has revealed that the misstatement of its accounts was extensive, involving very significant manipulation of the balance sheet and profit and loss accounts. Among other manipulations, this involved thousands of false entries into the Company's ledgers. It will take some time before a reliable trading outlook can be completed while the above work streams progress

[johnwise] 14/1/2019 15:09

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Hospitality heavyweight resigns from Patisserie Valerie board

[lefrene] 14/1/2019 00:03

It's a fascinating story, I hope all the interesting details come to light. NTV I too suspect that the initial £10 million would have been first used to take care of other LJ interests in the supply chain.

barnetpeter, if they try that no one will supply them, you'd put your prices up and demand cash up front from that point onwards.

[barnetpeter] 13/1/2019 22:26

It might also be they are making offers to suppliers ie 50 pence in pound. That may take some time. Money now or maybe nothing if administration

[ntv] 13/1/2019 18:30

lefrene
that is the point that I was trying to make
They ain't got any money!!!
Bet LJ companies get paid just like the £10m he put in before the placing he soon got that back out LOL
Some poor bas tards pension won't
POS

[lefrene] 13/1/2019 09:59

NTV, I doubt it's the mechanics of paying their suppliers that's the problem, more likely it's the finding of enough cash from operations that is giving them indigestion. From the apparent involvement of a number of other LJ companies as suppliers, this could be quite a cats cradle that has to be disentangled.

[sandy133] 13/1/2019 09:46

This looks more and more like a problem for GT.

Checking a sample of suppliers to see that the figures tally has been a standard practice for 20 years.This was due to the motor parts scandals of the 90's where none of the receivables were actually receivable.they did look good in the books though