Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Ocean Wilsons LSE:OCN London Ordinary Share BMG6699D1074 ORD 20P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  +0.00p +0.00% 1,090.00p 1,070.00p 1,110.00p - - - 0 05:30:39
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Industrial Transportation 367.5 107.7 164.0 6.3 385.46

Ocean Wilsons Share Discussion Threads

Showing 1326 to 1350 of 1350 messages
Chat Pages: 54  53  52  51  50  49  48  47  46  45  44  43  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
15/8/2018
15:25
On re-reading the trading statement just issued I see that Wilson Sons had US$323 million of date excluding the Joint Venture and not c$260m as shown in me post no.1300. I apologise for this substantial mistake. $53m is repayable within 12 months leaving $270m for the longer term.
varies
15/8/2018
09:37
NTV Currency movements have always been a big factor here. I recall many years during which Brazilian bank credits and debits had to be adjusted for inflation and, of course, it has long been virtually impossible to borrow Rials without currency protection for the lender. I do not have my copy of the 2017 accounts to hand but find this note in the 2016 accounts on page 10 which is probably repeated in the 2017 accounts : "........................................... The Group's borrowings are principally US$ related .....(92%)... As a significant portion of the Group's pricing is denominated in US$ this acts as a natural hedge to our long-term exchange rate exposure. " Current net debt seems to be about $260 million excluding $267m of debt from the company's 50% share of borrowings in the Offshore Vessel joint venture. These borrowings are of a long-term nature and, I believe, are on favourable terms encouraged by the Brazilian government. This debt is, of course, all within Wilson Sons. OCN's investment portfolio is $ related and, therefore, provides protection against weakness of the £ against the $. Any purchaser of the Container Terminals etc will presumably assume most of this debt and relieve OCN of this currency exposure. Let us hope that a good offer is received soon.
varies
14/8/2018
08:49
hardly moved in Brazil yesterday so i guess they are still hoping for an assett sale. you would have thought they could do something to protect the currency movements alot of companies don't and i really don't understand why because in some cases it a huge swing in the balance sheet numbers and can vary from year to year
ntv
13/8/2018
13:36
Seems an over-reaction today. You can't control forex mvts. May be worth another top-up, given the potential sales that are afoot?
topvest
13/8/2018
13:13
In general I am not in favour of companies buying their own shares, because usually they time it badly. Here however it seems a no-brainier with the share price at a huge discount to assets.
dozey3
13/8/2018
11:53
NTV I agree with you. If this was not already my second largest holding, I would be buying more. What should surely govern the share price for the time being is the prospect of Wilson Sons selling its container ports and I do not see this as much diminished. The fall in profits seems to owe much to currency movements; these are often soon reversed. If the sale of the container ports comes to nothing, OCN are still worth about £10 per share as before. Just for once the investment side seems to be holding up reasonably well, given market conditions.
varies
13/8/2018
07:58
double post
ntv
13/8/2018
07:58
Brazilian price is now 47.35 after falling on Friday on Thursday there were a few trades over 50 so just got to wait for next Q's results or the sale of terminals that the market ignored when first annouced might get a chance to top at £10 today perhaps
ntv
13/8/2018
07:54
note wrong date in statement above
ntv
13/8/2018
07:54
Net asset value At the close of business on 31 July 2018, the Wilson Sons share price was R$45.20, resulting in a market value for the Ocean Wilsons holding of 41,444,000 shares (58.19% of Wilson Sons) totalling approximately US$499.0 million which is the equivalent of US$14.11 (GBP10.76) per Ocean Wilsons Holdings Limited share. Adding together the market value per share of Wilsons Sons, US$14.11 and the investment portfolio per share of US$7.71 results in a net asset value per Ocean Wilsons Holdings Limited share of approximately US$21.82 (GBP16.63). The Ocean Wilsons Holdings Limited share price of GBP12.90 at 31 July 2017 represented an implied discount of 22%.
ntv
13/8/2018
07:51
Market does not like the results - Very poor - Investment division well under performed expectations - Already marked down 10% https://www.investegate.co.uk/ocean-wilsons-hldgs--ocn-/rns/interim-management-statement/201808130700045381X/
pugugly
13/8/2018
07:46
looks like the truckers strike cost them dear in final Q debt costs rose significantly as dollar strengthened so defeats the argument about paying down though i suppose it could reverse going to get marked down on these results but nett assets are supposed to be around £16.60 so it makes it an interesting play on any asset sales that could be forthcoming volumes in July appear to have increased by 5% compared to last year so that sounds promising a chance to top up ahead of any asset sales with a bit of luck
ntv
09/8/2018
07:29
hmm the July RG container terminal numbers were no where near as good as I thought they might be compared to last year :( Tecon Salvador on the other hand had a good month in comparison to last year. LOTM
last of the mohicans
08/8/2018
16:41
Indeed, indeed. I do understand my position in the queue. Lots of variables. I had been intending to do a similar look through discount for Hansa before I bought some more, but am stuck in a country hotel on my second pint whilst Mrs Sandals has here PM nap. I’m not expecting miracles like a tender or cash, but a liquidity event must substantially close that discount and which I could exchange for cash. All the best and appreciate the chance to discuss.
steve3sandal
08/8/2018
16:15
steve3sandal Ocean Wilson holds 41.440 Million Wilson & Sons shares which are currently priced at R$49.61 or $13.19 per share. If you use an exchange rate of £1 = $1.30 then $13.19 is worth £10.15 per share or £420m in total which translates into £11.88 per OCN share (420/35.363). On to which you need to add the investment portfolio. However, its not as simple as that. The Brazil market is placing a valuation on Wilson&Sons. They don't know which asset /assets might get sold and at what price compared to the book value of the said asset. If its one of the container terminals then I'm expecting it to go at a pretty high valuation compared to its book value. The trouble then becomes one of all this cash (even after paying off the debt (which given the low rate of interest on the loan I don't think they'll do) sitting in the sub. If they distribute it, only 58% of it will go into OCN, they then have to decide if they want OCN to make a shareholder payout or keep it in there and give it to Hansa (effectively themselves) to manage and extract the nice extra annual management fees. Even if they do go down the distribution route within OCN, most of there holdings are via the Hansa Trust (which will only get part of the OCN payout) they then have to decide if the also want Hansa to distribute the cash as well. You'll be gathering by now all the dilution that's taking place as the money moves up the tree & to the side, so they will get a lot less in there hands than people might think. That's not taking into account the tax that might be due on each of these upward distributions (ouch). If they are going to return cash to investors it might be via a share-buyback because the discount to NAV on the shares bought will help cover the tax due etc. It would also give them a liquidity opportunity if they so wished for Hansa to sell down its OCN holding. Lots of possibilities out there, but personally I see a cash payout from OCN as being very far down that list of possibilities. Oh & by the way I'm expecting to see some bumper numbers tonight, for July's monthly container stats etc. LOTM
last of the mohicans
07/8/2018
08:50
Steve Thank you for this useful information
varies
06/8/2018
21:18
WSON33 are up to $48.30 today, using $1.30 exchange rate, the 58.25% held by OCN is worth £400m. April 18 portfolio valn was £213 at the same exchange rate. There are 35,363,040 shares so that’s £17.36 NAV/Share. Obviously lots of variables and NAV currently not anything like cash so a discount is warranted. OCN currently £12.50 so a very interesting discount and a potential liquidity event in the subsidiary. If the WSON33 asset is substantially sold I can’t believe the family would vote to hand it all over to their asset manager. I’m holding tightly for any hint of a distribution which would see the discount close. I also hold Hansa and Hansa A and I think they may all see one of the value managers on share registers soon. We will see. Good luck all.
steve3sandal
06/8/2018
17:31
OCN has risen from about £10 to nearly £13 since the announcement last month. I suspect a certain amount of profit taking amongst holders. OCN are due to update on 15 Aug and hopefully we will see an NAV update which reflects that at £13 their discount is enough to attract buyers. In time I agree that a rising WSON33 should pull up OCN NAV and share price but not necessarily in tandem.
steve3sandal
06/8/2018
17:03
The share price of the Brazilian listed company seems to be slowly rising. OCN seems to be falling. You would have thought the share prices would have moved up and down together.
ntv
28/7/2018
13:22
Now re-united with my copy of the 2017 accounts I would like to add these details to my previous posts although they will be known to anyone else sufficiently interested : Mr W Salomon is aged 60. I believe he is the son of the Walter Saloman, the banker who came over from Hamburg, but he may be the grandson. Mr. C. Townsend is aged 44 and I assume that that he is the present WS's nephew. Between them WS and CT and their families control just over 50% of the capital of OCN, largely through holding a majority of the voting shares in Hansa Trust. There are 3 other shareholders with declared interests amounting between them to nearly 16% being 2 London funds and 1 Brazilian. The 10 year record of the investment side of OCN is undistinguished. In earlier years performance was excellent as the managers found some really good investments but, having cashed these in, they decided to spread the funds amongst a dozen outside managers. All one could say in mitigation is that they have taken a defensive attitude and, if there had been a market collapse recently, then their portfolio might have fallen less than most. If Wilson Sons were to sell the port terminals and connected logistics services, what would they do with the proceeds ? Obviously there is a lot of debt attached to these and there would presumably be Brazilian tax to pay on any gains It is reasonable to expect that they would distribute a large part of the net proceeds amongst their shareholders. Would OCN's 58% share of these proceeds be passed on to its shareholders or used to increase its underperforming investment portfolio ? Our best hope is obviously that Messrs Saloman and Townsend sell up and move on ! Someone here said recently that he would be pleased to take £13 for his shares if the price rose that far. I am hoping for rather more but not confident of getting it.
varies
19/7/2018
17:56
Well this will be very interesting to see what happens. The port business will probably attract a good price relative to their low returns on capital. Definitely a value play. I’m exposed to OCN and Hansa Trust, so hopefully a double win.
topvest
19/7/2018
17:28
LOTM, 04 de July de 2018 Latin America needs USD 55 billion by 2040 to boost maritime and port industry https://tinyurl.com/ycam767j
piedro
19/7/2018
10:21
LOTM I agree with you entirely. All will now depend on whether the Saloman/Townsend families want to do. If all the cousins are on excellent terms with each other, then they might well decide to keep OCN going. In almost any family there are, however, some members who would like to cash in. Glassboy Thank you for telling us about the TCP transaction
varies
19/7/2018
08:29
I see the shop, Cantor, are valuing the terminal assets at $800m. I need to do the math but that looks quite juicy for OCN and Hansa shareholders. Don't expect it will be distributed tho.
sspurt
18/7/2018
17:13
Last year China Merchants Port Holdings paid $924m for 90% of TCP Participações, which is a 1.5m TEU port. That was reported as 14.3x EBITDA. By comparison Wilson Sons have a current 1.1m TEU, agreement to major expansion of capacity at TECON Salavdor and the two logistics hubs. In 2017 EBITDA was $85.2m. Big transaction when Wilson Sons entire market cap is about $870m.
glassboy
Chat Pages: 54  53  52  51  50  49  48  47  46  45  44  43  Older
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