Nat.west 9%pf Discussion Threads

[fxbond] 14/4/2010 21:29

Much appreciated eeza. I think RBS have to make a very generous offer to rid themselves of NWBD. They could best do it when the stock is low -at the peak of an equity cycle with % rates near peak -if they at the time want to afford it -and then they could offer a good premium that risks will be taken on but not now. I bought at 47p not a very large amount but above tender threshold and keep for the income along with amounts of Santandar 10.375% that nuch the same could be said about. Prefs are debt and high% debt banks don't really like so they cannot be blamed for wanting to get rid of it. In any case we are not at the top of the cycle for fixed interest in all cases -and this is one -for the sole reason of the parent company being RBS that is impaired until it becomes profitable.

[eeza] 14/4/2010 20:45

Thoughts of interest on TMF board from Avidya

[fxbond] 14/4/2010 20:15

I was interested to see a corporate action notification from TD Waterhouse today concerning the tender offer for this stock. It says that 2000,000,000 GBP worth of stock are being purchased but this exceeds I think the amount of NWBD stock so perhaps you have to read in conjunction with the Memorandum from RBS. Morgan Stanley commented about this that NWBD is 11th in the line of priority and that it would require only 40% tendering of those in higher priority to be tendered for any NWBD tenders to be not accepted. So it appears to me that this notification requiring action by 21st April can be disregarded. In any case it is a derisory offer even taking account of the 'interest' offered pro rata since last months ex date in addition. RBS suggest that they might not pay if their capital ratio drops to 6% when the RBS capital ratio is 11% or that any payment might have that effect. They don't mention that in those circumstances they are required to issue stock 4/3 of the cash a mount that can if needed be sold in the market. We are not in a situation where inflation requires base rates of over 4%. In the last cycle preference shares rose with ordinary shares until inflation took hold putting real upward pressure on rates. At some point this might recur but the likely track for NWBD yielding 9% assuming continuing repair of RBS and stable at least Nat West trading some further appreciation in the stock. Indeed there is some improvement -those frightened off by RBS bull having sold and gone. Well this is how I see it - I intend keeping mine.

[badtime] 12/4/2010 20:25

Will tory plans for bank levy affect SP? ..Just musing

[holts] 06/4/2010 20:27

Non-US Tender Offer Cumulative Amount
Waterfall Security Tender Level  Outstanding (£m Equivalent)
1 RBS7.0916 10/29/49 65% 1,147
2 RBS 8.162 10/29/49 68% 1,897
3 RBS 6.666 12/31/49 72% 2,293
4 RBS 5 1/4 06/29/49 57% 3,396
5 RBS 5 1/2 11/29/49 57% 4,499
6 RBS 4.243 12/29/49 63% 4,646
7 RBS5.6457 12/29/49 65% 4,739
8 RBS 6.8 12/29/49 61% 5,059
9 RBS 6.467 12/29/49 65% 5,404
10 RBS 5 1/2 70% 5,414
11 RBS 9 100% 5,554
12 RBS 11 100% 5,564
13 RBS 7.387 12/29/49 100% 5,764

US Tender Offer
Waterfall Security Tender Level Cumulative
Amount Outstanding ($m)
1 RBS 6 1/8 $14.00 650
2 RBS 6 1/4 $14.00 1,200
3 RBS 6.4 $14.00 2,125
4 RBS 6.35 $14.00 3,125
5 RBS 6.6 $14.00 4,075
6 RBS 6 3/4 $14.00 4,750
7 RBS 7 1/4 $14.75 6,350
8 RBS 7.64 03/29/49 66% 7,850
9 RBS 5 3/4 $16.25 8,700
10 RBS 7 1/4 $19.25 9,000
11 RBS 7.65 $20.00 9,200
12 RBS 7.76 $21.25 9,500
13 RBS 0 09/29/49 52% 9,970
14 RBS 4.709 12/29/49 66% 10,292
15 RBS 5.512 09/29/49 66% 10,649
16 RBS 6.425 12/29/49 67% 11,042
17 RBS 6.99 10/29/49 74% 11,606
18 RBS 7.648 08/29/49 86% 12,368

[solomon9] 02/4/2010 20:34

The Bank told me that only if the co is insolvent, I have it on email, can it avoid paying the 13.375%.

post this next rights issue, the co will have a much better capital ratio, north of 8% and maybe a big cornerstone investor.

this is a steal here.

[lynton3] 01/4/2010 19:07

Re BOI 13.375%.
Most posters think interest payments are mandatory so long as co. is solvent, but the prospectus is not quite as clear as it might be on this point: clause 3.6 of the prospectus appears to allow the directors to exercise their judgement about maintenance of 'prudent' capital ratios. However, it does seem clear from the prospectus that interest payments are cumulative.

The prospectus can be found at:

[solomon9] 01/4/2010 16:48

BANK OF IRELAND IS SAFE

BoI 13.375% offer a perpetual yield of 11.73%

coupon can only be passed if co is INSOLVENT- and BoI is far from insolvent.

at 114 IT IS A STEAL

[malcolmmm] 26/3/2010 21:15

EK's other tips on the ARGONS, NWC $ prefs, RBS $ prefs etc have done so well that I thought I would try a punt on these, he thinks they look very cheap, have done some research and they look promising IMO, high risk though

[solomon9] 26/3/2010 19:44

B&B perpetuals I reckon will be worthless before long.

NWBD offer pretty generous compared to this time last year.

Why not switch into Bank of Ireland 13.375% bonds - 115 asking price?

[malcolmmm] 26/3/2010 17:06

Been buying the Bradford and Bingley 6% perpetual's over the last few days , nasty spread but they are shooting up
sp rose 2.5p on 24th, 3.51p yesterday and 1p today.
sp is 12.56p at the moment

[holts] 26/3/2010 08:43

If thats the case does this not bring us back to Pari Passu argument if private investors are excluded ? without reading prospectus can not be sure , but I would be certain its there.

[nandan] 25/3/2010 18:56

I do not think the tender is "applicable" for private investors...

See "United Kingdom" section of

[badtime] 25/3/2010 18:52

yes well...not taking tht one

[martincc] 25/3/2010 18:17

They're offering 100% tender for the NWBDs, currently trading 98.75/102p
As they are not blocked, it's not exactly an attractive offer is it?

[tommyttrades] 25/3/2010 18:16

€uroland resident so UK tax advice is one thing I have no idea on..Sorry



Will be holding the €uros as they are irreplacable for me...Would love another go on those !!:0)


Will probably keep the Argons and sell off some of the $ prefs as have already played around with them swithching and now holding P series.

[davebowler] 25/3/2010 17:49

Thanks to Evil's tip some time ago I hold some Argon too and would be grateful if you could share with us what you were told about the CGT position -if any.

[tommyttrades] 25/3/2010 17:14

See they are offering 65p and 68p for the Series 3 and Argons respectively.

Need to check the tax implications on this now



25 March,2010
Royal Bk Scot.Grp.
Liability Management Exercise

[solomon9] 24/3/2010 21:17

I bought Coventry 12.125% and more Skipton 6.875% just recently- need to generate the income given job is pying around 45% of 2007 level. Paid 137 and 73 - reckon there is a small upside to both.

Also like Co-op 13% - paid 127 for this last summer.

[malcolmmm] 18/3/2010 23:22

a few years back some PIBS were yielding 16 to 17% for a short time on some sort of scare, history seems to repeat itsself with fixed interest shares they invariable recover the reason I bought into the Argons, RBS and the NW-C

[insipiens] 17/3/2010 02:13

ah, the gift of hindsight ;)

[holts] 16/3/2010 19:49

hard to believe they were about two dollars fifty this time last year

[malcolmmm] 16/3/2010 19:36

NYSE:NW-C just keep on rising, 68% rise since buying these not including the divs, should have bought more when the yield was 15%

[kirkie001] 16/3/2010 11:23

Won't be of any relevance to NWBD given the are above par, tier 1 securities, and still dividend paying.