Marks And Spencer Share Discussion Threads

[white fox] 29/11/2011 20:26

Aye, hence the reason I have never voted Labour. However much prudence rhetoric they gave, you always knew in the end they would splurge it until we were near bankruptcy.

[jeffian] 29/11/2011 18:41

No, of course I don't. It was just a bit of empirical observation from the field! Make of it what you will.

Regus....aah....well they got quite close, didn't they?! The whole edifice is still built on sand (have a look at how much of their vaunted cash is tenants' deposits!) and there may yet be tears before bedtime.

As for GB being the saviour of the Western World and any problems now being experienced all being the fault of the Coalition......errrm, he was in the driving seat for 13 years. I think you will find he was pretty much involved in the build-up to the accident before you praise him for his actions after the crash. First Healey, then Brown - spend all the money and run into a brick wall. If Labour get back, Balls would do just the same. It's in the political DNA, I'm afraid.

[nickward] 29/11/2011 17:04

White Fox

We are all allowed one mistake. I'm glad to hear that you are not a Daily mail reader, there is already enough misinformation out there.

Wllmherk

You appear to rely on the Daily Mail for your information, so who is really misguided, deluded or brain washed? Your use of the word lefty gives it away.

jeffian

I remember you posting on Regus many years ago, seems they didn't sink into oblivion as you predicted. Do you really think the opening of the Paris store can save M&S share price from being savaged by zero economic growth, sky rocketing redundancies and record unemployment which is still forcast to grow? I have my doubts but admire your optimism.

[white fox] 29/11/2011 15:30

nick, to be fair GB did at times handle the financial crisis quite well and, as wllmherk points out, wasn't a bad chancellor when his prudence wasn't just rhetoric. However, his narcissism and self-regard at his own abilities and the natural inclination/pressure of his base meant that his spending got way out of control for where we were at in the economic cycle and was (as many Labour MPs have admitted) wasted to a large degree. You cannot deny that, whilst he did what he could to avoid disaster at the time, his fiscal policies left us in a uniquely bad position to ride out the aftermath. Recessions caused by banking crises are longer than normal recessions and the continuing trouble in the eurozone means that this one could be even longer. There's a lot of debt to be paid back and surely even the most hardened socialist must be able to see that any hint of backsliding on deficit reduction will result in us coming under pressure from the bond market.

FWIW I consider myself an independent voter having only voted Tory once in my life (at the last election) and I consider the Daily Mail to be a non-newspaper.

[jeffian] 29/11/2011 15:20

Meanwhile, back 'on topic', I am in Paris at the moment and I can report that mid-afternoon today, the new store on Champs Elysee was packed and there was a controlled queue of about 200 waiting to get in!

[wllmherk] 29/11/2011 13:57

what a misguided fool you are nick. Typical of most lefties, always blame someone else. Gordon Brown will go down in history as the worst PM ever. His time as Chancellor equally so. Sadly I think his first few years as Chancellor were actually rather good, but, his tax and spend instincts took over and they were a disaster.
wllm

[nickward] 29/11/2011 11:29

Gordon brown saved capitalism and the whole western economy, fact. If it wasn't for him, the banks would have disappeared up their own backsides never to be seen again, with them would have gone pension funds, payrolls, and mortgages the whole lot. Conservative party policy at the time was to let the pack of cards collapse and you can imagine where we would be now without any capital in the economy at all. I suggest people take off the rose tinted spectacles that they view the present government with and get real. Instead of slagging off Gordon Brown you ought to be grateful. Don't come back with the old 'Should have regulated the banks argument' because it was Lehman Bros that brought down the house of cards and that was bad regulation by the yanks. The regulation argument doesn't wash with RBS either because it was bad management and paying too much for acquisitions that brought that pack of cards down. Some say they don't want a nanny state then they complain about not enough regulation. It is easy to blame Gordon Brown, but in my opinion those that do are naive and easily manipulated by that childs comic of a newspaper the Daily Mail.

I also apoligise for being off topic.

[white fox] 28/11/2011 20:20

GB should be in prison imv.

Oh, and we're not the 4th biggest economy anymore either. US, China, Japan, Germany, France then UK (6).

Sorry for all the off topic.

[jeffian] 28/11/2011 18:50

Gordon Brown promised to balance the budget 'over the economic cycle'.....but over 13 years we never saw the end of a cycle (apparently).
He sold all our gold at the bottom of the market.
He raised a windfall tax from the oil companies.
He raided the pension funds for #billions.
The biggest - and entirely unremarked - windfall was achieved by moving to 'on account' tax payments in advance giving him massive cashflow.

And what did he do with all this? He blew it. Most of the massive increase in spending on NHS went straight onto salaries. GP's who used to earn up to #80k now easily see #200k. On top of that, he hid massive capital expenditure in 'off balance sheet' PFI schemes which we will be paying for for decades.

The plain fact is that over their two last stints in power, Labour have spent everything in the kitty - and none too wisely either - and left the economy in a mess.

[white fox] 28/11/2011 16:17

nickward, our deficit is bigger now because deficits rise during recessions. Economic orthodoxy says run a surplus during the good times and a deficit during recessions. We went into the global recession (which wasn't GB's fault to be fair) with an already large budget deficit. When tax receipts go down and unemployment claims go up, you start to run a deficit. Unfortunately, thanks to Gordon's bending of his own golden rules we already had a large deficit.

Of course we need growth, but there's no point having more debt-fuelled growth like that of the last couple of years of the Labour government. Proper sustainable growth comes from rising productivity not from another borrowing binge that will lead to disaster.

As for China being communist, ffs, get with the programme. You ask what planet I'm on - you're still on planet 1970s.

[nickward] 28/11/2011 16:06

Aussiedonnie

It won't be the 4th biggest economy for much longer. Do you want to send some of your politicians over here to run the country for us?

Gruss

Gravey train or sucker train?

[gruss] 28/11/2011 15:44

The gravy train is on its way. All aboard please!

[aussiedonnie] 28/11/2011 15:06

No matter what you downers chit-chat about the UK is the 4th biggest economy in the whole wide world,so there.

[nickward] 28/11/2011 14:32

White Fox

You sound like another Tory know it all, youre still trying to blame Gordon Brown for the mess the government has got the country in. You say" Of all western governments ours went into the recession with the biggest budget deficit because Gordon Brown thought he'd banished boom and bust". So you now claim that it was the fault of Gordon Brown. What planet are you on! our deficit is now bigger than when Labour left office. I re-iterate, we need growth in the economy to reduce the deficit, cutting and austerity doesn't work on its own, just look at what that did to Greece. As far as China is concerned it is a shining example of how Communism has outwitted capitalism. They know how to get our money off us then lend it back to us, it's the best example of re-distribution of wealth I have seen in a long time, shame our governments aren't as savvy.

Staying Short on M&S no confidence in this government!

[robertfaulkner] 25/11/2011 08:10

W Fox, you and your article are absolutely right and add that China now MAUFACTERS nearly everything in the world (we used to)

One silly, simple but frighting example of their competition.

Watch batteries were a couple of £s each a few years ago, China then started supplying these batteries so cheaply that a card of 20 or so could be moved half way round the globe and sold here, at a profit, for £1 for a 20 batteries card

[white fox] 24/11/2011 20:54

nickward, a comment I made on a recent Independent article:

Were it not for a commitment to get the budget deficit down (and the bigger problem is a 9% annual budget deficit which if perpetuated would double our national debt in about 8 years rather than our current overall debt situation) Britain would be at the mercy of the bond markets now too. Our debts would rapidly become unpayable and we would have to go cap in hand to the IMF or default and get shut out of credit markets altogether. If that happened, today's austerity would be a walk in the park. Blaming the bond markets is stupid too - why should anyone lend to anyone if they doubt their ability to repay? If you don't like it don't borrow. The fact is, there is no palatable option but in order to get the public finances in check (thanks to more economic illiteracy - running big budget deficits at the wrong part of the economic cycle because you think you've magically banished boom and bust) austerity is the least bad option for Britain right now. It is just made a lot harder if everyone else is doing it at the same time.

The economy is screwed now because the whole western debt driven growth model was sh1te. Of all western governments ours went into the recession with the biggest budget deficit because Gordon Brown thought he'd banished boom and bust and ran big deficits when we should have been running a surplus. Anyone with even a basic understanding of economics knew our economy was built on sand. Labour should have 20 years in opposition for what they have done to this country.

[nickward] 24/11/2011 12:37

I agree Waitrose is preferred by the middle class for food, M&S have lost a some customer base with the public sector cuts which have mainly affected women. This is exasperated since the previous chairman of M&S wrote to the newspapers to support the cuts. Even if they haven't been made redundant they are reluctant to shop in place that has supported hatcheting their livelihoods.

[wllmherk] 23/11/2011 19:00

I don't think anyone can make a bullish case for any stock at the present. Our EU friends look like dragging the UK into another recession.

wllm

[essentialinvestor] 23/11/2011 18:55

What would be more interesting is if someone could make the bull case
for MKS?.

[wllmherk] 23/11/2011 18:51

I don't agree with you Nick, but, won't bore other posters/readers by responding. Unless there is a more appropriate thread we can continue this on ?

[deanforester] 23/11/2011 17:32

From what I see, Waitrose is favoured by the middle classes over MKS.

[essentialinvestor] 23/11/2011 12:21

Nick does like his politics, not the thread for it really, but hey ho.

Can the £3 level hold?.

Here is my view fwiw - the UK middle class which form a good deal
of the MKS base, will be hit particularly hard over the next few years.

Waitrose are a big threat on Food with their rapid expansion and
they are now opening smaller stores - Food itself grows ever more competitive
with the big 4 aggressively expanding.

Clothing is about as tough as a market can be with huge margin compression,
that will only continue imo.

Some overseas exposure and still a great brand, however nick's
price target of 260-280 may well be seen in 2012.

All just imv as always.

[jeffian] 23/11/2011 12:11

Sorry, I'm on the wrong thread. I thought this was about MKS. My mistake, apparently.

[nickward] 23/11/2011 09:32

wllmherk

I don't want to go and defend the previous Labour government but let's have a reality check and cut through the conservative party BS. The fact is that the economy did grow massively under Labour and with that growth came higher tax income which was indeed used to on public sector spending. Let's call it as a re-distribution of wealth to support areas of the UK that had suffered severe hardship under Thatcher and Major Governments. Despite your argument the figures did stack up, income and expenditure were at appropriate levels. The problem came when the Banks and Financial institutions became even greedier. When the financial bubble burst there was no longer the tax income to support the spending and the situation was made worse when we the public had to bail out private companies who, had they not been banks, would have been liquidated. A mistake by the previous government indeed, but a mistake made by many governments including USA under the republicans, Greece under the then Greek Conservative government, Spain, Italy, Iceland, Ireland etc. You cannot blame the Labour party for the current situation, when they left office there was 1 to 2% growth in the economy and less than 1.5 million unemployed. Now we have 2.6 million unemployed and an economy that is flat lining and teetering on the brink of recession. The Conservatives have had 18 months managing the country and we are a lot worse off than when they started, if that isn't failure then I don't know what is.

[essentialinvestor] 23/11/2011 09:12

Or The Specials - Ghost Town.