Lloyds Grp6.475 Discussion Threads

[sommet2] 05/2/2009 22:25

The XD is stock exchange requirement.It does not guarantee payment.With base rate now 1% the prefs should be trading over 100p especially as the ord have recovered. The market does not believe the pref div will be paid. If it is paid then I will double my holding because it removes a big uncertainity.

[fbrj] 05/2/2009 21:50

dalesiders - I agree but are you implying that Lloyds are seeking not to pay the Govt? In other words, assuming there are sufficient distributable reserves, do you think the Board will then just exercise its discretion and not authorise the payment on the 12% (and other) prefs? In my view this is an unlikely scenario.

[dalesiders] 05/2/2009 13:53

If they pay the pref dividend they will have to pay on the 12% Govt prefs as well

[solomon9] 04/2/2009 14:03

It is showing XD on the dealing screen and identifiying a payment date- the price movement is reflecting the dividend- according to Fidessa the payment is 3.24p ps and paying on 16th March.

I would venture that it is safe to presume Lloyds is paying the pref dividend on this stock.

[holts] 04/2/2009 10:45

thanks, fb - pt , pity

[colinc57] 04/2/2009 09:51

seems gone ex div today- reflected in the 3p fall in price.

I'm holding at average 52p ( gross of costs to date ), but have previously jumped in and out at a profit

[fbrj] 04/2/2009 09:23

The additional consideration was only payable on the original HBOS 9.75 and 9.25% prefs - not the 6.475% prefs.

[ptolemy] 04/2/2009 09:18

I seem to recall that as HBOX these were non-cumulative, redemable. So, no payment in lieu. Perhaps I'm wrong.

[holts] 04/2/2009 08:54

tyrano, there was a loss of certain rights on conversion , on the 9.25 % they made a payment in lieu of these , and I assume there is a similar arrangement for the 6.475.

[eithin] 04/2/2009 08:50

LLPE - Gone ex div. so guess div OK.

[lord gnome] 04/2/2009 08:27

HOLTS - I am in the same position as you. Still awaiting payment on the 6.475.

[tyranosaurus] 04/2/2009 08:25

HOLTS

No idea what you are referring to.
Surprised they go xd 39 days before dividend paid.

[holts] 04/2/2009 08:15

were we not due a payment on these for the loss of rights on conversion ? similar to the 9.25 stock, I have received it for the latter but not for the 6.475 , anyone else received this payment yet ?

[lord gnome] 04/2/2009 07:57

Price marked down - looks like we have gone ex-div. Now let's see if we get paid next month. Fingers crossed I reckon.

[spacecake] 03/2/2009 17:02

Many thanks fbrj for the link and others for the useful debate, the old HBOS site was better with good info.

[pvb] 03/2/2009 14:01

The pdf document referenced in post 32 is the one I mentioned in an earlier post. It describes the prefs but does not seem to contain payment dates.

These should be OK for an ISA.

Later - Sorry I must be going blind... The document, and I have relevant pages printed out(!), does give dates. 15 March and 15 September in each year.

[lord gnome] 03/2/2009 12:08

fbrj - in normal circumstances I would agree with you, but these are not normal circumstances. It wouldn't be the first time that a dividend has been pulled after the shares went ex-div. In my view it will mean nothing at all. I wait to see what the market does with the price tomorow morning. Somehow I doubt it will be marked down.

[fbrj] 03/2/2009 11:41

What is interesting about these Lloyds prefs is that they are the first ones where a dividend is due to be paid since the merger with HBOS etc. The payment date is 15th March (all the other prefs have a first payment date after this). As we know, this dividend payment is at the discretion of the Board and can range from the full amount to zero.

"...in their sole and absolute discretion resolve at least 10 Business Days prior to the relevant Dividend Payment Date that no Preference Dividend shall be declared and paid or that a Preference Dividend shall be declared and paid only in part."

So my reading is that by 2nd March at the latest (and possibly 27th Feb because 15th March falls on a Sunday)the Board must announce if no (or reduced) dividend is going to be paid. If this was the case and these go ex-div tomorrow - would the board allow these to trade ex div and then suddenly announce some 4 weeks later that, after all, there would be no dividend (or a reduced dividend)?

If one comes to the view that the board should/would not allow this then if these go ex div tomorrow (ie price reduced by 3.2375p/share) it might be reasonable to conclude that these divs will be payable in full and are not going to be reduced. All these prefs have to be treated equally...so if the divs are paid on these - they have to be on the others too.

What do others think?

[lord gnome] 03/2/2009 11:05

Ex div tomorrow then?

[fbrj] 03/2/2009 10:59

spacecake try here:


Page 30 for 6.475% prefs; other prefs shown too.

[pvb] 03/2/2009 10:04

From Digital Look

Ex-Marker Start: 4-Feb-09
Ex-Marker End: 16-Mar-09

[spacecake] 02/2/2009 21:03

I been trying to find dividend date info for these and the other new lloyds prefs on their website but can't seem to find anything. Anybody got a link they could post?

thanks in advance.

SC

[sommet2] 02/2/2009 18:22

I am a fan of the Lloyds prefs but in my view to make comparissons with RBS is not realistic when trying to assess risk.Lloyds will survive and prosper but there is a very good chance that some form of quasi nationalisation will apply to RBS. It is already 70% owned by the government and this will increase to at least 80% when RBS pays for the government guararantee to insure approx £100b of its toxic debt.I agree that there is a risk of a domino reaction but I believe the market understands that RBS is very different to Lloyds. This was recognised by Brown recently when he discovered that 80% of RBS lending was made outside the UK.Everything the government is doing to try and help the UK economy will thus benefit Lloyds significantly but only benefit RBS to a small extent.RBS is much more exposed to the US housing market where the problems are one of over supply which will drag prices down for years to come.At least the UK does not have an over supply problem.
With regard to RBS still paying the interest on its bonds this is true.If they don't it will result in a default which is unthinkable and immediate result in Moodys reducing RBS credit rating to junk.Preference shares are very different.If they fail to pay out on the prefs it will not cause a default.

[pvb] 02/2/2009 17:26

New irritations!

I tried to buy some of these today via my ISA (whether that's a good idea or not is another matter). My brokers_ system refused - saying "It is not possible to buy these in an ISA".

Is this nonsense? I can't see any reason why not, they can't be redeemed until 2024 at the earliest as far as I can see. I already have some in the same ISA, purchased as HBOX.

I will speak to broker_ tomorrow. Til then, does anyone know anything?

[renew] 01/2/2009 15:30

Realistically nationalisation must be nearer a 50 to 1 risk.
What would it mean!
If Lloyds are nationalised RBS will have gone also. Those two down would almost certainly take down Barclays. With those three gone Aviva, L & G and Prudential would be gonners. By the time that lots wiped out any number of other financial cos would be finished. All those pensioners with reduced or no pension. Political suicide isnt the word. It would be the end of Labour for all time. It doesnt matter how much it costs, the government have to stump up the cash! The ordinaries may be diluted out of sight but the prefs will rise from the ashes big time.
Lord G is correct!