Lloyds Grp 9.25 Discussion Threads

[folderboy] 29/11/2017 18:32

If I may be so bold as to ask . . . why?

[aspex] 29/11/2017 18:21

Bought initial 10k at GFC and the imposed dividend cancellation at 67p. Average of all buys at 102p.Wonderful income but now tempted to sell all LLPC/D

[my retirement fund] 28/11/2017 09:17

The Santander prefs also saw a similar pre report boost as did Standardchart im guessing the pros all got briefed on this very secretive report a few days ago over a very expensive tax payer funded pre Christmas dinner and shindig.

[jonwig] 28/11/2017 08:10

I expected a rise this morning after LLOY passed the BoE stress tests quite cleanly. But it seems the market was already discounting this.

[my retirement fund] 25/8/2017 23:25

2.5million traded at 1.63p yesterday

[alphorn] 01/8/2017 13:12

I prefer the 6.475% Pref myself. Have a reasonable amount.

[jonwig] 01/8/2017 12:08

I suspect LLOY will suffer a bit if the UK goes into a post-Brexit recession, as it's a UK-centred bank. It's also involved in vehicle PCP lending, which might be the next mis-selling scandal. So the risk of capital and perhaps dividend loss is rather high, I think.

[pierre oreilly] 01/8/2017 11:18

Good thinking and sensible imv, although i like uber safe divi earners with less risk, so i'm keeping my lloy/llpc ratio the same, and also my safe cashlike/equity ratio the same too.

What a performer llpc has been.

n general i think it great saying what the cash raised will be used for. All this switching people do doesn't really get them very far if they sell something at say 20% profit, then buy something else which doesn't perform as good as the thing they've sold. iyswim. (btw, talking about people crowing on other boards, not your strategy with this!).

[tiswas] 01/8/2017 10:54

I am seeing forward dividend yield forecasts of 6.5% for Lloy ord and we are a shade under 6% for the Prefs.

Still wondering if now is the time to switch for the higher yield and poss capital growth in the ord?

edit

I was bid 1.6225 for 15k in one account which was too tempting as this brings the yield down to 5.7% and I reckon (fingers crossed) I can get a similar yield with the greater possibility of capital growth elsewhere.

Famous last words!

[alphorn] 29/6/2017 09:23

#867 good summary.

[jonwig] 29/6/2017 09:17

tiswas - I'll change my tune a bit from my March comment.

• A lot of commentators are calling the Fed's tightening a misstep. (That is: plain wrong.) I still don't think it will be significant.

• There might be rises from the BoE and ECB but I wouldn't expect them to amount to much, unless the pound falls with a bad Brexit outcome or UK wages start rising too fast (public sector cap dropped). But a bad Brexit makes for recession and a rate cut, maybe!

• Lloyds is pretty big in UK PCP finance, which might get them into a mis-selling problem (not again!!??). Worth looking out for statements from the PRA and FCA on this.

Since I bought my LLPC outside an ISA and never bothered transferring them in, I've got a bit of a CGT problem if I sell in a single tax year. So I'm not exactly itching to get rid.

[tiswas] 29/6/2017 08:32

Anyone have any thoughts as to where these are heading now talk of interest rate rises finally seems a little more serious?

[jonwig] 06/3/2017 11:56

tiswas - I intend holding these in the face of what you suggest:

• US rate hikes unlikely to be big enough in total to seriously affect prefs. US economy still full of uncertainty (political factors, of course).

• BoE is cautious about rate rises. Maybe some, but not much. And Brexit - I don't do political argument, but my own portfolio is positioned for a bad future. Which means rates would stay low.

• ECB - EZ economy still to feeble for any rise.

Of course, Lloyds is likely to be the safest UK bank and the ords could do OK. I won't be dogmatic.

[tiswas] 06/3/2017 11:12

Talk of three nailed on interest hikes in the US this year. Anyone have any thoughts how llpc and other prefs will respond?

I am thinking of getting out and buying more of the ords as interest rate hikes are meant to be good for banks?

[aspex] 24/8/2016 20:24

The current price of LLPC/D reduces the yield but only if you buy today. For some the gain from the low point is doubled.One thing that is certain is that anyone who chose the ECN path (though not available for these) made the absolute wrong choice for any long term redeemable so and all non-redeemables.

[pierre oreilly] 18/8/2016 07:22

Until there's a whiff of increasing rates, this will carry on slowly climbing up imv. Money will be coming out of bank accounts once the latest round of decreases work through, and some will find its way to fixed interest like that llpc. Another year before that whiff I expect.

[aspex] 17/8/2016 11:25

Significant rise since Brexit as the interest rate fall sets in and consequent lowering yield.

[redartbmud] 20/6/2016 22:55

aspex

I agree up to a point.
I took the opportunity to buy LLPC and LLPE at very acceptable prices, my only regret being that I did not buy enough of them.
On the other hand, I held a PIB that was taken over by Lloyds and subsequently converted to an ECN. I voted against but the far more knowledgeable experts, who manage the majority institutional holdings, voted for. I continued to hold until they were forcibly bought back at par. My original purchase had been below par, and I had benefitted for a handsome dividend for many a year. On that basis I cannot complain.

red

[aspex] 20/6/2016 22:22

LLPC/D have no redemption provisions. Lloyds could buy them back in the market but I believe they can only do so once they are paying an ordinary dividend, which itself is constrained by firstly meeting the dividend for the Prefs. The EU stoppage of two years of dividends provided a great opportunity to buy in at a cost which fully discounted the lost dividend.At the time these two shares fell outside the amount of cash available to service ECNs so there was no decision to be made in accepting ECNs instead. Those who were greedy enough to go for ECNs with the extra percentage and no loss of income stream deserve their current position. Those who subsequently sold got the benefit at the expense of the buyers who have now complained. Those buyers obviously never looked into the fine print or they would not have bought and the price would have been that much lower.

[montyhedge] 20/6/2016 13:20

Thats what we thought of the ECN's until they found a way to sneak out of the deal. Double check that boys.

[alphorn] 20/6/2016 12:41

red. correct.

[redartbmud] 20/6/2016 12:40

I believe that there is a call at 2024 on the LLPE 6.475%, although they are described as irredeemable.

[montyhedge] 20/6/2016 12:22

I bet they are looking at everything now, why pay 9.75% when they can get away paying a lot less.

[jonwig] 20/6/2016 12:20

I doubt LLOY would look at jiggery-pokery with these, as the prospectus T&C are relatively straightforward. Also, at least one series of prefs is redeemable (I don't remember which) so it's pretty clear that these aren't.

EDIT: other prefs are sagging a bit today.

Isn't UK unemployment now down to 5%, the level at which the BoE would look to raising rates? And if Brexit is now a receding chance (?) a rate rise would become more likely. After all, we'd be able to fill every job vacancy on a Bremain vote!

[No pov intended on that question.]

[alphorn] 20/6/2016 12:05

Prefs are prefs. I doubt it Monty.