Imagination Technologies Share Discussion Threads

[cotswoldsparky] 09/4/2017 21:18

Could this be significant - Softbank have sold 25% of ARM to a $100bn fund run by their founder, with Apple committing $1bn just a few weeks ago.



Maybe this fund could be a candidate to bid for IMG?
Maybe Apple were offered some 'sweetners' for their investment - access to Mali IP, perhaps?

Purely conjecture and conspiracy theories from the cotswolds... ;-)

CS

[mister md] 09/4/2017 14:32

Cheaper to take over the staff than the company I suppose. Do IMG contracts allow them to move to their #1 customer so easily ?

[rob_evans] 09/4/2017 13:44

Thanks for that link rbalakrishnan.

Here are extracts from the article that rational people will be interested in:

Apple steps up graphics chip plans with London hiring spree

Apple is embarking on a hiring spree in London as it ramps up efforts to develop its own graphics technology just days after pulling the plug on Imagination Technologies.

Job adverts posted in the last month reveal a string of openings at Apple’s “UK Design Centre” for roles in graphics unit design. It is likely to increase fears that Imagination will lose more staff to the iPhone maker after dozens of employees have jumped ship from the Hertfordshire-based group.

Apple’s openings reveal around a dozen new opportunities for roles in designing and supporting the graphics architecture, the technology that Imagination currently licenses to Apple.

Imagination’s current employees are likely to be a key target. Profiles on the networking website LinkedIn reveal that at least 25 former Imagination staff have joined Apple in the last two years in San Francisco and London. They include John Metcalfe, Imagination’s former chief operating officer.

[borromini1] 09/4/2017 13:21

Just off to experience some Heliosphere real time ray tracing. Oh I just remembered, some people think Apple don't need that anytime sooner or later. Ha Ha. Back later. Thanks for responses.

[sheep_herder] 09/4/2017 12:23

lol, divis? They'll be lucky to be alive in 2 years and you want a divi. Talk about not having a grasp of the situation.

[borromini1] 09/4/2017 12:03

Rob_Evans
Thanks for the response.

Dividends.
8 Feb 2016 Imagination Conference Call - IMG interim CEO AH stated "the business going forward will be absolutely focused on creating and unlocking shareholder value".

So where are we now?
Continuing operations are profitable, net debt is much better than the 2017 H1 position of £41m.

So what should we expect?
How about a commitment by IMG by the time of the next AGM to pay a dividend of 5p per share when continuing operations profits reach £28m.

Would that be a good enough start?
Comments please.

How much would it cost?
283m x 0.05 GBP = £14.15m

[sheep_herder] 09/4/2017 11:13

Borromini, more comedy gold.

[rob_evans] 09/4/2017 11:06

borromini1 > "Who thinks Apple are ditching Imagination?"

Thanks for reminding me that it's a complete waste of my time trying to talk sense to people here.

[borromini1] 08/4/2017 18:42

Rob_Evans
Thanks for your response.
In Imagination's Regulatory News (RNS) titled Discussions with Apple regarding licence agreement dated 3 April 2017 of essence to the statement there is reported a mutually exclusive contradiction between the views of Apple and Imagination. Apple privately communicated to IMG that "Apple is of a view (sic) that it will not use the Group's Intellectual Property in new products within 15 months and two years time, and as such will not be eligible (satisfying the conditions) for payment of royalty (sic) payments under the current (sic) licence and royalty agreement". Whereas Imagination believes it will be extremely challenging for Apple to achieve a brand new GPU architecture from basics without using IMG IP or IMG confidential information, hence Imagination's view that Apple can't do it.

In the subsequent Imagination Analysts Conference Call (ACC) of the same date, CEO AH stated that this Apple issue is all very recent news. So we might assume that IMG were first notified after the IMG press release dated 8 March 2017.

The IMG press release dated 8 March 2017 states "Imagination have already licensed the first Furian IP cores to multiple partners with initial RTL delivered" Lets assume Apple were included in those multiple partners. That means that Apple's current licencing and royalty agreement referred to in the RNS is for the PowerVR Furian. This also ties in with the RNS if we assume Apple have already bought and paid for the licence part of the agreement and as usual it will be the more expensive architecture version with detailed access to the IP to enable customisation for product differentiation. So the only part left to pay for are any royalties on future new products using Furian. Read about all the next-generation PowerVR Furian architecture, an entirely new GPU architecture designed for the evolved graphics and compute needs of next-generation consumer devices, on the IMG web site and start to tick off the list of features seemingly developed with Apple in mind if not with their involvement but also others.

So far so good, where's the rub? Well how about subsequent media articles stating Furian silicon is expected late 2018 earliest with products likely 2019. The RNS alludes to Apple wanting a new generation GPU delivered in new product in 15 months from now. That timing turns out to be June 2018, that coincides with the usual month for the Apple World Wide Developer Conference (WWDC) when Tim Cook and previously Steve Jobs would announce new software and hardware products. Then there's the usual new iPhone launch in say September 2018, again caught by Apple's timings but not IMG's. You get my drift. There could be two issues involved in Apple wanting to control its products, one the architecture of the GPU core the other the flexibility on timing of the product cycle. With Apple and IMG being so closely entwined on GPU design for so long it is easy to assume that the new Furian architecture with its flexibility to act as a hub for optional additional modules tightly integrating other units such as Ray Tracing would be a great fit for Apple. The timing issue could be the problem, especially, for example, if Tim Cook has recently internal to Apple ordained that it is of paramount importance for Apple to produce particular software/hardware product(s) by a particular date(s).

The RNS and ACC mention discussions with Apple on alternative structures, constructs and commercial arrangements. We have to give IMG and Apple time to attempt to resolve their differences, if possible, to the extent that a revised agreement can meet the needs of each party in a realistic manner without recourse to protracted legal action.

Who thinks Apple are ditching Imagination? Who thinks Imagination should have more time to complete their discussions with Apple?
From the trading volume since Monday you could estimate that 20% of shares have been sold at least once, leaving 80% that have been held. That's your figures.

Apologies for the verbose post.
While this post relies on a close reading of the RNS and ACC a hidden agenda driving events is always possible.

[rob_evans] 08/4/2017 15:29

borromini1 > "I hope all shareholders, employees and management will retain the resolve, assertive determination, diligence and unity of purpose to achieve a successful resolution of the current situation that reestablishes the company as strong and highly valued"

Seriously? IMG never managed to pay a dividend when they had Apple as a customer. In fact they made a loss and fell into debt with Apple as a customer.

What on earth do you think is going to happen when they lose most of their income? IP licensing tends to have largely fixed costs, which makes high volume sales all important. If IMG couldn't make IP licensing work with Apple as a customer, I fail to see any way they can be "strong and highly valued" without them!

[borromini1] 08/4/2017 14:22

hacklesrising
Double in 20 years is very disappointing compared with you looking at six times prior to last Mondays announcement, from BoE inflation calculator £10 in 1996 was worth £17.23 in 2016, ending up with £20 must feel like starting over again. IQE has certainly had a terrific run in the last 9 months and seems to be collecting discerning investors from those involved with IMG. Best of luck.

After Monday IMG shareholders and employees are all facing the same question, stay or go. Hopefully some posts here in their small way help resolve directions to be taken.

Now that the drop has happened and trading volumes subside I hope all shareholders, employees and management will retain the resolve, assertive determination, diligence and unity of purpose to achieve a successful resolution of the current situation that reestablishes the company as strong and highly valued. The sooner we get an announcement showing confirmation of that direction the better.

[richardc77] 08/4/2017 09:00

Always makes me chuckle that a couple of de rampers think they can effect the share price via the message boards. Bless em

[rossy73] 08/4/2017 02:21

mallorca 96 Apr '17 - 08:24 - 27176 of 27216 2 1
That works both ways Richard.
My view is that this will fall substantially and I hope to make a profit via a short spreadbet.
You and others here think it will rise - although I suspect that many are making the terrible but common mistake of averaging down.

Mallorca, I'm never been one to get involved with baiting or antagonising other posters of these boards as I believe in karma and being kind to my fellow man/investor. I'm very much of the opinion that you reap what you sow in this life through helping others.

Your consistent deramping of img has now become wholly tiresome hyperbole without anything to support your view. There's a chance you may be right given time and it will drop into the 90s as the apple story is assigned more credibility and traction. However, right now you need to ask yourself why have there not been any rns notifications from the main holders of them selling their holdings down a week after the initial notification. Surely if the major holders were really as concerned as your negative doom mongering would have them believe they'd have run from the hills and sold the lot - not the case though - strange huh!

They are probably of the same view as me that this is a hustle of sorts, and Nick James at Numis is on the money here

[adventurous] 07/4/2017 16:40

Two days in a row UT price higher than prior 10+ transactions - a top side 105.25

[rbalakrishnan] 07/4/2017 16:21

The man who called it right. Well worth a re-read.

[mallorca 9] 07/4/2017 16:20

It'll hover around here for a while before another sharp drop.

[mister md] 07/4/2017 14:48

currently more of a belly flop than a dead cat bounce here ;)

[brucie5] 07/4/2017 12:51

investment Dave
7 Apr '17 - 12:36 - 27210 of 27210    0   0
Recovery on the way now back to £1.30
--------------------------------------------------

Agreed. I'm expecting a fairly hard bounce here. Which is not the same as a recovery in its fortunes. Have positioned myself accordingly.

[borromini1] 07/4/2017 12:47

Mister MD - We all need to stop repeating the wrong debt figure. Yes 2017 H1 net debt was £41m but this was updated by the IMG CFO on 3 April 2017 in the Analyst Conference Call. CFO Guy stated the H2 position is much better, nearly all the Q3 royalties have been received. the cash position is better, the final position is now much better on net debt. There is no need to downgrade projections for the 2017 year. IMG have a fixed and revolving loan facility of £46.5m. The head room within that facility has substantially increased.

Continuing operations are profitable for now, not to diminish the gravity of the future situation.

[investment dave] 07/4/2017 12:36

Recovery on the way now back to £1.30

[rbalakrishnan] 07/4/2017 10:57

And no trading statement. Should have suspected something was up.

[richardc77] 07/4/2017 09:48

I have been thinking, apparenty HY was seen at IMG HQ for several days in one week, it was mentioned on this board a month or so ago. Wonder if they were discussing something to do with what has just happened and asking his opinion.

[mister md] 07/4/2017 09:40

In the current scenario, to prevent lengthy legal proceedings, wouldnt it be best for IMG to put itself up for sale? Apple may think twice about potentially letting it go to a competitor ? And 40m debt, while a big deal to IMG, is "peanuts" to Apple .....

[mister md] 07/4/2017 09:35

I posted an article, its not "my logic". I'm just viewing this as a trading stock at the moment, but I hope value is restored to some extent for the longer term holders here