AAIF imo is s better option, more diversified, trades at 10% discount & latest div policy 6.25% of NAV, yielding 7% & only uses a small part of capital reserve to top up div. Has done well recently, holding Singapore banks & Taiwan tech. Large holdings in Singapore & Australia provide stability. TSM is a 13% holding, slightly off-putting but the more I research a winner no real competitors & building a $10B plant in US to keep Trump onside + protect US security. |
LG - that reads to me as they don't understand your point. |
Thats a different point, the churn is one thing, the lower share price is another. I haven’t got the time. |
Yump - how else would you explain the churn in the portfolio? |
Lord Gnome
There’s no causal link between your Dividend stripping, (if it took place and was possible on this scale) and the share price. Just a correlation. If it wasn’t clear, I was referring to the timing of dividend in and out behaviour as a zero sum game, because of the theoretical loss/gain being equal, as each investment goes ex-div.
Interest rate rises and gilt % have messed up loads of trust share prices.
If you think there’s another reason, what is it? |
LG - last few years thats been the case with quite a few companies. There have been so many events producing headwinds that its been one step forward one step back. The latest fall back of HFEL however is particularly frustrating after it was appearing to be moving forward. |
Also if you look at the "margin" between issue price and NAV its very small.
It is really down to daily timing - so placed at 215.9 as at the 13th (it says) whereas the NAV on the 7th was 215.8 so they would have to pick and choose which day to announce err sorry place... |
You have it exactly yump. Investing in HFEL has been a zero sum game for several years. What you win in dividends you lose in capital value. |
But each monthly amount is not huge - that kind of money used for working capital purposes each month is kinda useful. |
I am surprised that since it has been going on for so long the issue hasn't been raised before now and clarified. I am sure the big investors would have had something to say. Be nice to how the 6m or so has been 'invested' |
Lord Gnome / tim 3 that's a fair point.
I see that they have issued more shares again today - its a monthly thing.
I am now starting to believe they do it for working capital |
Surely “dividend stripping” is a zero sum game. I don’t see how capital reduction is related to that supposed activity.
Also what capital reduction has been reported and what capital is it? Value of investments? NAV?
Strikes me this discussion has got way overcomplicated for a relatively simple process of earning £x from a set of investments and then distributing the £x to set of your own investors.
Instead of them diy’ing their own.
Seems a lot simpler than an REIT owning assets with variable sales pricing, variable sun and wind, variable subsidies etcetc |
AAIF may start to perk up now it has a new fund manager. |
If thats the case you are indirectly paying for the dividend from capital. |
I suppose there are two independent ROC’s, HFEL’s dependent on their investment performance and ours on our purchase price.
I assume looking at the share price history, at some point hfel shares were yielding 5% and their investments were yielding 5%.
Then the share price halved. |
Isn't that your return on capital employed? |
Thats how it always works surely. Companies have £x in earnings to distribute as dividends - doesn’t matter where it comes from. Your yield depends on what you paid for the shares, because you get paid per share.
So if you bought £100 worth of shares at £1 each and someone else spent the same but only got 50 shares because they cost £2 each (when the share price was higher), your yield is twice his.
So you both get a fixed 2p per share, but you get 200p and he gets 100p in total. |
yump.
Thats a really good point would be very interested if anyone could confirm if thats how it works. |
Surely the yield on the invested businesses is not something that correlates with the HFEL yield. It gives a fixed cash amount at 5% yield.
If the share price was 10p or 1000p and you bought at those prices, that cash from the investments would be fixed, but the trust yield would be wildly different |
Indeed but their capital value even without taking into account inflation has been going down for years making me wonder if the return is at the expense of capital . |
They must have been doing whatever a long time because they have been paying around 10% for years. |
Tempted to have a few down here.Does anyone know maybe based on the top 10 holdings what the average yield is of shares in the trust?Last time I looked was around 5%.If that's still the case then they must be doing a lot of option selling or dividend bagging to get the yield in double figures. |
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