Gen.acc.7se.pf Discussion Threads

[joe say] 30/4/2018 07:13

Perhaps they should compensate the bond holders of ALL companies affected by their inept stupidity

[cwa1] 30/4/2018 06:23

IMPORTANT:-

[joe say] 23/3/2018 07:51

Incidentally the Directors duties are more than that stated in this RNS namely,

172 Duty to promote the success of the company
(1) A director of a company must act in the way he considers, in good faith, would
be most likely to promote the success of the company for the benefit of its
members as a whole, and in doing so have regard (amongst other matters) to—
(a) the likely consequences of any decision in the long term,
(b) the interests of the company’s employees,
(c) the need to foster the company’s business relationships with suppliers,
customers and others,
(d) the impact of the company’s operations on the community and the
environment,
(e) the desirability of the company maintaining a reputation for high
standards of business conduct, and
(f) the need to act fairly as between members of the company.

In fact the fairness between members is the last point - look at the others - customers, community, high standards of business conduct etc

Has Aviva followed these - Imo No - no way

[spectoacc] 23/3/2018 07:14

TIDMAV.
RNS Number : 7183I
Aviva PLC
23 March 2018
23 March 2018
This document includes inside information
Statement on Aviva plc and General Accident plc preference shares
Since the full year results announcement on 8 March 2018, Aviva plc ("Aviva") has heard a wide range of views on its preference shares*, has spoken to a large number of investors and has received strong feedback and criticism.
As a result Aviva has listened. Aviva announces that it has decided to take no action to cancel its preference shares.
Under current regulation the preference shares will no longer count as regulatory capital in 2026. Aviva will work towards obtaining regulatory approval for the preference shares, or a suitable substitute, to qualify as capital from 2026 onwards. If as we approach 2026 Aviva needs to reconsider this position, it will do so after taking into account the fair market value of the preference shares at that time.
On 8 March 2018 Aviva stated it has the ability to cancel the preference shares at par value, having received clear legal advice. The review of the preference shares was initiated as a result of Aviva's duty to examine what is right for the business, balancing the interests of ordinary shareholders and preference shareholders. Aviva needed to address the issue of the preference shares given regulatory capital considerations and their cost.
Aviva is in a strong financial position and still plans to deploy GBP3 billion of excess cash in 2018 and 2019 to reduce hybrid debt, fund bolt-on acquisitions and buy back ordinary shares.
Mark Wilson, Group Chief Executive Officer of Aviva plc, said:
"I am very aware that Aviva is in a position of trust with our customers and investors. To maintain that trust it is critical that we listen to and act on feedback. The reputation of Aviva, and the trust people have in us, is paramount. Our announcement today means that preference shareholders can rest secure in their holdings.
The Board and I have a duty to consider not just the financial implications of our actions. We must consider the impact to Aviva's wider reputation. I hope our decision today goes some way to restoring that trust."
*Preference shares issued by Aviva plc and General Accident plc

[spectoacc] 22/3/2018 08:51

Nicked from elsewhere:

[spectoacc] 21/3/2018 08:36

Pendulum seems to be swinging:



30th March response takes us to a week Friday - wonder if things may have been "resolved" by then..

[yf23_1] 18/3/2018 15:48

Article 74 would save these too wouldn't it ?

[spectoacc] 16/3/2018 09:39

Done a little juggling this morning - sold some AV.B & GACA, put it into GACB. Downside is clear & real, but also limited.

[spectoacc] 16/3/2018 09:01

I think you're right - it's trashed the entire sector after all. Aviva think they've found a legal way around the word "irredeemable" but their weasel words only make it worse - use of the word "retired", and claiming there's a number of ways that irredeemable prefs can be cancelled (then listing such things as "with the approval of the holders" and "buying back in the market").

It's not even about the small print really - there's no clause mentioning this route as a possibility. Aviva are threatening to try to rely on what hasn't been said, rather than what has.

Can't see this having a resolution any time soon.

[monty panesar] 16/3/2018 08:56

I agree with what you say.

It feels like total miselling by the corporates to call the shares irradeemable when clearly they aren't.


How can they expect joe public to read the small print of the prospectus before buying shares.

This story is going to run and run.

[spectoacc] 16/3/2018 08:48

@Monty - announcement was yesterday, but not even RNS'd.

I agree they seem keen to retire/cancel (not "redeem" of course :) ) the GA prefs, but before 2026 rather than imminently - they'll surely wait for all the bad press to subside.

And then I'm guessing they'll offer a token premium - it's already just over a quid with issue premium on top (plus accrued, but that will depend what date they pick). I conclude that from the "..Balance the interests of ordinary & preferred shareholders" part - there's no way cancelling them at par, way below market price, can possibly be balanced.

I'd expect/hope that the AV.A & B's may be safe, simply due to the risk of Aviva losing the shareholder vote.

[monty panesar] 16/3/2018 08:39

My laymans interpretation of todays announcement is that both General Accident prefs are likely to be repaid at par. For the Aviva prefs it is a lot more difficult due to the voting.

But read the detail for yourself before doing anything as it is purely my view after a quick glance

Morally bankrupt corporate Britain.

[yf23_1] 16/3/2018 07:57

I wonder if they made any purchases prior to March 8.
If so, would they have to declare or only if they cross a %age limit ?

[spectoacc] 15/3/2018 21:01

Not yet the news I'm expecting/hoping for from Aviva, but this really did make me chuckle:

"In response to these queries we are providing investors with a more detailed explanation of the mechanism through which the preference shares may, with Court and shareholder approval, be cancelled following a reduction of capital. This is one of a number of methods by which preference shares such as these can be retired.
Neither this document nor the additional information provided should be taken as a statement of the Company’s intent either with respect to any decision to return capital on the preference shares, the mechanism of cancellation or the amount per preference share to be returned, and no inference of such intention should be made. No decision has yet been taken. If and when a decision is taken, we will make the appropriate market announcements.
As noted in our announcement on the 8 March 2018 we and GA are evaluating the available alternatives, including how to balance the interests of ordinary and preferred shareholders."


It's taken A WEEK to put that out. Panic sellers got little more than a quid from MMs when bid prices were far, far higher. They talk about "...We and GA..." when they're effectively the same bloody thing! Aviva own 100% of GA, unless I'm much mistaken? They've now added a new weasel word - "..Retired.." - which seems the definition of irony. So "Irredeemable" means not only "can be cancelled" but also "can be retired". And they say "...This is one of a number of ways in which preference shares such as these can be retired", when just about everyone else says that "Irredeemable" means just that, and this is just about the only way that Aviva, short of going bust, can attempt to get rid of their obligations to pref holders - and that even this method may well not work. Pathetic. I'd love to see them list their "..Number of ways..".

And I'm one of the lucky ones - I held no prefs before the clumsy RNS last week.

Edit - Aviva have indeed listed their "..Number of ways..":


"13. There are other available methods to retire the preference shares by agreement with the relevant holders and with the necessary approvals from ordinary shareholders and other stakeholders, for example market purchases or tender offers. For the avoidance of doubt neither Aviva nor GA have made any market purchases of preference shares since the date of the 8 March announcement."


But having read their entire Additional Information, it's basically the same cobblers as previously. Will be interesting to see how they'd square "..including how to balance the interests of ordinary and preferred shareholders" if they did attempt to redeem at par.

[spectoacc] 15/3/2018 16:29

Shoved more money where my big mouth is with some GACB's - available under 118 on a 117/121 quote. No question the GACA/B's are the riskiest, guaranteed to succeed a hurdle the AV.A/B's may fail at - the shareholder vote (AV. having 100% of the ords). But I think Aviva's decision, when they make it, won't be to redeem. And if it is, they'll have a court battle first.

Time will tell but got to be in it to win it, & downside seemingly 18p/share max.

[monty panesar] 12/3/2018 19:27

Someone at Aviva has made a serious error of judgement.It is a shame that corporate Britain is plunging to new lows.

[speedsgh] 09/3/2018 07:26

#AV.A #AV.B #GACA #GACB

Small investors hit by Aviva bond buyback -

[kenny] 09/3/2018 01:33

To all holders of Av and GA preference shares - although I am not a holder I have done some research and please see my comments on the AV.a board at posts 326 and 327.

[my retirement fund] 08/3/2018 16:52

Wow someone sold some for £1.05. Total lunacy

[skyship] 08/3/2018 13:32

Jonwig reported this on the AV.B thread:

From AV.'s FY results:

In 2018, we have signalled our intention to reduce hybrid debt by £900 million. We are targeting more than £500 million in additional capital returns, incorporating liability management and returns to shareholders.

In this regard, we have the ability to cancel preference shares at par value through a reduction of capital, subject to shareholder vote and court approval. The preference shares carry high coupons that are not tax deductible and they will not count as regulatory capital from 2026. As we evaluate the alternatives, one of the things we are considering is how to balance the interests of ordinary and preferred shareholders. We
have committed €130 million to acquire Friends First in Ireland and have further appetite for bolt-on acquisitions in our major markets. Any unused M&A budget will be diverted to further reduce debt balances or fund additional returns.

I doubt pref. shareholders will vote for this, but I'm not well-versed in their Articles - maybe ord holders have a vote too?

[skyship] 03/7/2016 15:52

The Aviva prefs have been a poor Market since Brexit; though rallied off the bottom on Friday. The average yield has dropped back to c6.2%:

# AV.A 8.75% - 137.0p-141.0p – Yld on the offer share price = 6.20%
# AV.B 8.375% - 132.0p-135.0p – Yld on the offer share price = 6.20%
# GACA 8.875% - 137.0p-139.0p – Yld on the offer share price = 6.38%
# GACB 7.875% - 123.0p-128.0p – Yld on the offer share price = 6.15%

[skyship] 09/4/2016 17:28

The pref market in general burst into life last week, especially Friday; and the Aviva prefs were no exception. Time to have a look across the piece where the the average yield has dropped back to 6.0%

# AV.A 8.75% - 145.0p-146.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 5.97%
# AV.B 8.375% - 136.0p-138.0p – Yld on the offer share price = 6.07%
# GACA 8.875% - 144.0p-146.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 6.06%
# GACB 7.875% - 128.5p-132.0p – Yld on the offer share price = 5.97%

E&OE

AV.A & GACA best buys as nearest to the next dividend.

[skyship] 31/8/2015 10:45

The Aviva prefs have been a better market over the past 6weeks, with the average yielding dropping back to 6.3%

# AV.A 8.75% - 138.0p-139.75p – Yld on the offer share price = 6.26%
# AV.B 8.375% - 131.0p-133.0p – Yld on the offer share price = 6.30%
# GACA 8.875% - 136.0p-137.85p – Yld on the offer share price = 6.44%
# GACB 7.875% - 126.0p-127.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 6.18%

GACB looks to be a sell; perhaps after they go XD this Thursday (3rd Sept'15).