Forterra Share Discussion Threads

[thrumptasious] 09/8/2019 22:24

I personally don't think Forterra will hold onto their Precast business in the long term. Their CEO (Harrison) stated shortly after the Bison aquasition in 2017 that the return on investment (£20 million) would only take a year which was rather nieve of him. Looking at the accounts and half year results posted the Precast business is likely to make a loss this year (two years on). Yes the wider business is doing well but that said it would be in a much healthier position without the Bison business.

In terms of share dividend Ibstock is by far a better investment choice

[m_kerr] 09/8/2019 20:54

bison is currently a drag on profits, and not looking like a good use of shareholders funds, but it's worth remembering it's a drop in the ocean compared to the £550m enterprise value, and £53m annual profits. the core business is very stable and profitable.

[thrumptasious] 04/8/2019 17:06

Thanks Husbod - Forterra are in he process of making redundancies within their Precast bespoke business (Bison), they are clearly looking at cutting costs on the back of the disappointing 1/2 year results. Comparing past performance (P&L) I suspect that come the end of this Year that Forterra Bison business will have lost the equivelent of almost 50% in profits of what they paid for the Bison business in the two years that they have owned it.

[thrumptasious] 04/8/2019 17:06

Thanks Husbod - Forterra are in he process of making redundancies within their Precast bespoke business (Bison), they are clearly looking at cutting costs on the back of the disappointing 1/2 year results. Comparing past performance (P&L) I suspect that come the end of this Year that Forterra Bison business will have lost the equivelent of almost 50% in profits of what they paid for the Bison business in the two years that they have owned it.

[keifer derrin] 04/8/2019 07:46

Thrumptasious if you look at the lists of trades someone sold over 239000 at 1635.

[thrumptasious] 03/8/2019 18:51

Hello Husbod, Sorry I've no idea what you are referring to here, could you elaborate please?

[husbod] 02/8/2019 17:16

Who was responsible for that big sell I wonder and why did they sell - our exposure to the uk market maybe.Anyway the share price drop is well overdone imo.

[damanko] 01/8/2019 10:55

Hello T. I don't think you're reading the results wrongly, clearly the Bison stuff is proving problematic, I get what you say...

Sirius Minerals? A great story waiting to happen. And therein lies the problem. It's still waiting to happen. Massive investment needed, and where are those funds coming from?

2016, share price 11 pence. 5 years on, share price close to 15 pence.

Interesting to read the word amortisation in your post, having run a logistics business in East Africa I understand it. Depreciation is easy to understand, amortisation is not.

Enough said. For now.

[thrumptasious] 31/7/2019 20:19

Hi Damanko - Although the Bison flooring plant is high tech, very modern and relatively new factory it has never been a profitable business. As a flooring business It is not particularly designed to deal or cope with the needs of the UK housing or domestic market. This is is clearly being reflected in the half and full year results since the acquisition. Unless I'm reading the results wrong a (£400k) for Bison Precast after depreciation and amortisation must be the worst results ever. You did really well with our investment at £1.70ish which demonstrates that you must be quite astute, the Taylor Wimpey is a good call too, they are a key account for Forterra.

Have you any thoughts on Sirius Minerals? Do you think this is worth investing a few ££'s in?

[damanko] 31/7/2019 09:57

Thrump,

Thanks for your candid reply, as you know I suspected a connection, not rocket science after all, given what you've posted to date.

After the flotation froth had settled in 2016, I invested in FORT at one seventyish. As mentioned before, the rationale seemed quite clear. Britain needs houses. And houses need bricks. For the same 'supply chain' reason I invested in Taylor Wimpey. 3 years on I'm not regretting either purchase.

What is it precisely that you don't like/rate regarding the Bison acquisition and business model? On the surface and with no inside information, it would seem a decent fit.

[thrumptasious] 30/7/2019 19:24

Hi Damanko, yes I am an investor, I did capitalise on the drop in share price today so it's not all doom and gloom. The Bison Precast business is not performing particularly well, and is going through a period of transition - let's hope it improves going forward

[damanko] 30/7/2019 16:53

Hello again Thrump.

Your posts on this thread have been resolutely negative in terms of Forterra as a business, and whether results give hope for the future.

You're not by any chance connected in some way to Bison, as your posts always seem to veer towards that side of the business...?

[thrumptasious] 30/7/2019 12:39

A further set of poor results from Bison Precast - This division of Forterra would surely be in serious trouble if it was a stand alone business and not supported by the operating income of the block & brick division.

Bison Precast - Turnover up, capital expenditure up .......where is it all going wrong??

[m_kerr] 25/7/2019 20:34

brick makers are the pick and shovel sellers of the housing boom. whoever builds the houses, and what price the houses are sold at, don't mean anything, what matters is the volume of houses that are built. they enjoy protection from competition abroad due to high shipping costs, and barriers to entry because of the clay reserves.

[philanderer] 20/7/2019 00:20

Questor: why you should buy this brick maker even while house building is comatose

[m_kerr] 17/5/2019 17:35

the operating numbers bison produces look terrible.

however, the rest of the business generates excellent margins and cash returns on capital. i was aware of the business, and assumed they were offering commodities that mean excess returns would be competed away, but the phil oakley article has made me look at the business.

the 30-50 years of clay reserves look like a formidable barrier to entry, and the fact that 4 or so producers control 90% of the market should mean they can expand with discipline.

[thrumptasious] 13/4/2019 22:13

Bison Precast results were disappointing only time will tell whether the Bison acquisition was a good investment - looking at past results its not looking promising at the moment. Turnover increased to £100 million however profits were significantly down,

[abbett1] 12/4/2019 10:55

Good news re the planning grant, 320 here we come.

[abbett1] 05/3/2019 14:28

Good news on Ibstock, hope Fort is to follow on.

[thrumptasious] 04/3/2019 19:29

Ibstock tomorrow Forterra to follow soon after

[abbett1] 03/3/2019 23:52

Results out soon

[abbett1] 27/2/2019 14:28

Positive news on all the major house builders now, hopefully it will start pushing Fort up a bit further now.

[abbett1] 14/2/2019 10:52

I've also read this article and it sounds fairly positive when you take into accounts what's happened with the kiln. I've been trading for a couple of years now and this is actually my first post. I should of bought in at the back end of last year(end up going with paypoint) but wanted to see what was going on with the housing market first. From all the positive trading figures from the major house builders then surely it can only be good for this company. I actually trade in land to some of the national builders and they don't seem to be slowing up on purchasers at the moment - this obviously doesn't mean they won't just be land banking. I'm fairly certain I will be buying these shares its just trying to decide on if I do it before or after the march announcement. I'd probably be looking to hold onto them for 12months max, to take advanted of the help to buy scheme while its still running.