Ebtm Share Discussion Threads

[malkie] 14/10/2008 14:11

clueless - expected profitability can be read in 2 ways

1/ they expect to be profitable
2/ they expect the level of profitability to be in line with market expectations.

since they indicate "wholesale revenues will be lower than previously
expected" (thats 65% of the business) it has to be the former.

Its would be wishful thinking to expect anything else.

[dixi] 14/10/2008 14:10

Clueless - having to sell part of the business to retain profitability, rather than selling what the business makes to turn an expected profit seems a bit desperate to me?

[dixi] 14/10/2008 14:08

Malkie, again I don't disagree, apart from as far as I can see Masters has not bought back all that he sold to EBTM. According to the RNS he has bought back one part of the business which, until now, had not been specifically valued. Of course it had been valued in context of the overall deal done by EBTM when they bought from Masters - so they cannot imply it was worth nothing in the first place!

It is a turkey and I would not invest today, nor would I consider adding anything to my holding. As for my holding - that I need to consider.

[clueless] 14/10/2008 14:04

I agree its a very vague RNS

However this quote from the RNS is encouraging I feel

"However, the restructuring of this
division has been implemented to maintain the expected profitability of the group."

[malkie] 14/10/2008 13:37

Dixi you need to get some perspective here.

Masters took £3.25m in cash up front and £1.5m in shares for Lowlife on 1st June last year. His remaining shareholding is now worth £300k.
Why would he give a stuff about EBTMs performance??? He has probably written off his shareholding and would be well advised to do so.

He has bought back his company for just £200k up front - less than 5% of what he was paid 16 months ago.

The lock in is essential for the company to stop the rot for another year.

Online could well put in a stellar performance, but relative to previously accounting for just 35% of total revenues.

If Online is up 50% and wholesale is down 25% then its still a disaster!

Management have well and truly demonstarated how to buy at the top of the cycle aned sell at the bottom.

A bit like RBS, management deserve the same fate!

Holding these shares is simply rewarding failure.

[minger] 14/10/2008 13:22

Seems Masters has written off his shareholdoing and just wanted to get control of the brand ...in the event the unthinkable happens and this goes into admin the administrator would be putting out for best bids and he would have no guarantee of getting his brand back.Alot of other companies could distribute this for Masters so if ebtm did pop it is no skin off his nose.This is grim.

[dixi] 14/10/2008 12:09

Finally does anybody know what Dale Masters online effort is called - not much luck googling so far?

[dixi] 14/10/2008 12:06

Malkie - I am not disagreeing with you but I would like to get to the bottom of this.

Possibly 600K in design and manufacturing the products - which they have not sold - struggling for much else?? As for Spain well who knows - they 'forgot' to tell us!!

Already in gold juniors as you know (from AAU), EBTM was my wildcard hope to shrug off the economic woes.

Also in gold producers - MCR has unfortunately proven that nothing is a given!!!!

[malkie] 14/10/2008 11:32

dixi - how do you get a £600k pa saving if its only the IP?? Well??
Is Lowlife Spain part of the brand??

Dale masters has bought back his old business after 18 months. EBTM retain UK sales rights.

I dont have any faith in anything they say.period.
The announcement raises more questions than it answers.

fool me once shame on you. fool me twice shame on me.

Wake up and smell the coffee dixi. Too many shares in issue and the Dale Masters overhang alone will ensure the share price is rooted until his lock in ends in 12 months.

do yourself a favour, and get some gold juniors - it will give you something to get excited about instead of watching this flat-line for the next 2 years.

[dixi] 14/10/2008 11:10

Malkie they seem quite specific about this bit, but of course say nothing about the rest!.............


"EBTM purchased the Lowlife brand as part of the acquisition in May 2007 of Lowlife Corporation Ltd, the wholesaler of music inspired clothing and accessories. No specific valuation has been placed on the brand previously as the revenue contribution from Lowlife branded sales is not material in group terms."


"part" of acquisition and "no specific valuation"

So what does the 'Brand' constitute - is it the name, manufacturing, design and final product - and that is it?

[dixi] 14/10/2008 11:08

LLOYDEBTM - have they told you what the problem was with Lowlife and why Masters thinks he can make a go of it? Or do they simply need the cash to avoid something much worse. I am not doubting that EBTM have a potential future - it's just that they need to be funded adequately to the end game - same for so many failed companies with an "if only......." tale to tell.

[malkie] 14/10/2008 11:07

How can it be the BRAND alone and not the business if there is to be £600k pa operational savings??

What about Lowlife Spain??

[lloydebtm] 14/10/2008 10:55

Profits will meet forecasts and will increase next year dramatically (due to the £600k saving) so I have just been told (by an undisclosed reliable, person)...phew...I was also a bit concerned there for a minute :)

[lloydebtm] 14/10/2008 10:51

I have not been able to get Richard this morning but in reading the story, I would say, EBTM have sold the BRAND not the company, so Dale will be able to (for instance) make Lowlife socks, etc, then let EBTM sell it and Dale will get brand royalties from it.
A bit like Michael Jackson, when he bought the rights to a lot of the Beatles back catalog and gets the rights and royalties to it.

[malkie] 14/10/2008 10:36

I read it as the result of a reckless misadventure.

Anyone who is trying to look for the positives is deluding themselves. wake up and smell the coffee.

I gave them one chance and the benefit of the doubt with restatement of loss last year.

They have carefully chosen their words with this announcement and I have no doubt there is a veiled profit warning in there.

They may end up turning a profit, but they will miss targets and blame it on the retail side.

I will not be putting any faith in anything Management say going forward.

The Dale Masters lock-in is just putting off the inevitable. An overhang is an overhang. The guy will sell the lot minute he is able to. This will not break 2p for a year. Move on and never look back!

My focus is now on my quality gold juniors. They are the only potential 20 baggers and this is why...

[dixi] 14/10/2008 10:03

clueless - that is how I read it.


LLOYDEBTM - your thoughts?????

[dixi] 14/10/2008 10:02

"EBTM purchased the Lowlife brand as part of the acquisition in May 2007 of Lowlife Corporation Ltd, the wholesaler of music inspired clothing and accessories. No specific valuation has been placed on the brand previously as the revenue contribution from Lowlife branded sales is not material in group terms."


"part" of acquisition and "no specific valuation" - is this key?

[clueless] 14/10/2008 10:02

Theyve just sold the accessories part not the whole business they acquired right?

[dixi] 14/10/2008 09:58

Malkie - could you add the 'News' pane to the header - it makes it easier to get to the news as it happens.

Many thanks.

[granny7] 14/10/2008 09:50

How much stock came with Lowlife and how much is left at sale time.

[dixi] 14/10/2008 09:46

Well they save £600k - so they presumably need to do so.

Is this a case of choosing the first thing out the door to raise cash as no other avenue is available to them.

They claim to be maintaining profit forecasts but only by selling off part of the business, does this mean that although they may meet forecast, forward projections may be downgraded?

I assume that certain elements of the initial Lowlife purchase are retained?

Why would Dale Masters buy the brand if it is not worth the effort - he should know?

I simply think EBTM needed to raise more loot to clear nagging debts.

But of course we are left to speculate as EBTM is giving us very little to go on.

[minger] 14/10/2008 09:22

Dale Masters must be laughing all the way to the bank(other than the price of his ebtm shares)...the sale of this non core asset etc....but at the time we paid the £4.75 for it it was
"Lowlife is a wholesaler and on-line retailer of clothing and accessories in the
area of music inspired fashion. Its product range and marketplace are highly
complementary with that of EBTM and represent approximately 10% of EBTM's
current retail sales."

Surely someone would have paid more for it than £200k on the front end.The preferential distribution terms need to be something special.Sort it out ebtm.

[greengiant] 14/10/2008 08:55

Granny, online is a fraction of the whole "new" business. Wholesale is a far greater part in terms of turnover and profit

gg