As i said on 17th 700 to be tested now 600 or less as we get more bad news.. DRAX at Risk due to Government Levy becoming more likely. PM candidates highlighted Nothing is absolutely off the table so I expect 700 to be tested soon. SO HOW LOW AND WHEN?? |
Yes you have by making ridiculous assumptions about what I believe in!
The fundamental one, that I am a greenie Eco Warrior that colours your view of everything else I might be thinking!!!! |
i think we have exhausted this discussion now.
Tiger |
 Castleford Tiger
Post 3649
"Geck
Ok tell me whats green in your opinion?
Wind turbines?
Panels covering farm land?
How about burning gas to produce electricity?"
None of them are Green.
"Clearly you are part of the green brigade that's caused all these problems by stopping using fossil fuels BEFORE we had enough green energy produced and stored.
Green to me is TIDAL or HYDRO .( hydrogen for cars)"
Hahaha
Incorrect diagnosis.
I am most certainly not part of the Green brigade as I do not believe in anthropogenic global warming/climate change or whatever tripe the Left is labelling it as.
I do believe the climate is changing, but not because of man made activities.
Tidal is getting there but still youve the environmental costs and infrastructure costs of preparing the site, shipping in the materials, then building the dam.
"How can you compare EDF which is 84% owned by the state to DRX?"
Because any Govt can nationalise any company in the strategic interest. And energy provision is the lifesblood of the economy, so highly strategic surely?
"Government cannot just take a private company out.........its a very complicated and costly process"
Yes they can. It's called using force majeure/state of emergency legislation.
It might be costly but it is very doable, especially if power cuts because of serious concern.
"DRAX BURNT COAL so wood pellets made from waste is in my opinion much greener and more Eco friendly"
Deluded.
Diesel used to ship them across the Atlantic for starters. A log burner, sourcing local wood is greener than Drax operations.
"The oil used to ship ALL the wood here, is only 2% OF THE AVIATION FUEL used at Leeds airport on an annual basis"
Another Diversion.
So you DO AGREE that it isnt green then!!! But you're happy because Aviation fuel used at Leeds airport is worse!!!
Talk about moving the goal posts.
Private jets are worse. If we wanted to be serious about this alleged" man made climate change then they'd ground all private jets as they pollute even more than Leeds airport!
Does that mean Drax is Green.
Erm no.
"So i think you are being pedantic
tiger"
Nope just being factual.
Clearly, as evidenced above, you are unable to grasp such but think my comments are motivated by being a Green Eco Warrior etc.
I am anything BUT! |
Geck
Ok tell me whats green in your opinion?
Wind turbines?
Panels covering farm land?
How about burning gas to produce electricity?
Clearly you are part of the green brigade that's caused all these problems by stopping using fossil fuels BEFORE we had enough green energy produced and stored.
Green to me is TIDAL or HYDRO .( hydrogen for cars)
How can you compare EDF which is 84% owned by the state to DRX?
Government cannot just take a private company out.........its a very complicated and costly process
DRAX BURNT COAL so wood pellets made from waste is in my opinion much greener and more Eco friendly.
The oil used to ship ALL the wood here, is only 2% OF THE AVIATION FUEL used at Leeds airport on an annual basis.
So i think you are being pedantic
tiger |
Listen i am at the sharp end of this with one site facing an increase from current 12.2p a unit to almost 60p a unit on max demand meters.
That's an increase from 3.5k a month to well over £17k a month.
I am seeing business close daily all around me ( source backing this statement again was the Sunday times)
Half the pubs in the UK cannot take a 4/5 fold increase.
no butchers/farm shops can.
This has come about by chasing a green agenda.
I am sitting on 150 years of coal something used in Germany's 69 coal stations.
We blew the last of two up close to me 3 weeks ago.
We have allowed this to happen by moving the green agenda too fast before we had nuclear.
Burning waste wood is pretty green to me.
We need to do anything in our power to keep the lights on this year and next.
Talk of nationalization is just not going to happen.
Drax is a good sound business slagged off because you don't think they are Eco friendly.
Tiger |
Castleford Tiger
Post 3641
"GECK
Which bit is exaggerating?"
All of it.
"So the lights go out?
Producing 8% of the uk needs"
That means 92% of UK needs is still being produced so the "lights" wont go out. There might be rationing in parts, but the lights, per se, wont go out across the country as 92% of power will still be provided. |
Gas price hit 550p a therm. |
All the worry about the "renewable" status of cutting down forests, transporting by ship to burn in Yorkshire is now set aside for years to come as Drax provides an independent energy supply. However what happens if we ever resolve the energy crisis - does sailing with wood chips have a long term future?
Wood-burning power station handed £11bn despite climate warnings
The owner of Britain's biggest wood-burning power station was handed billions of pounds of public money even though ministers were warned that using trees as fuel was more harmful to the climate than coal.
Drax is to receive a total of £11bn in subsidies after converting the majority of its plant in North Yorkshire to run on so-called biomass, despite the findings of a government study eight years ago.
The report undermines recent claims by the Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng that the eco-credentials of the plant “haven’t been questioned”.
The report was reviewed by the Telegraph this week but originally published in 2014.
Mike Childs, head of research at Friends of the Earth, said: “For over a decade the Government has known that in some circumstances burning biomass to make electricity can be worse than burning gas or coal.
“Yet they failed to set strict enough standards on what can be burnt and where it comes from.
"Instead, Drax has received billions of pounds worth of public subsidies."
Commissioned by the Department of Energy, the 2014 report looked at the carbon intensity of burning wood for power.
It found that using forest “residues” for fuel was less carbon-intensive than burning gas and coal over a period of 100 years, but that using whole trees was worse than burning coal when measured over 40 years and 100 years.
Forest residues are materials such as leaves, bark, branches and splintered shards of trunk that would otherwise go to waste at sawmills.
More than one third of the wood burned at the plant is derived from whole trees, according to Friends of the Earth, although the company disputed that figure.
In a leaked recording revealed earlier this month, Mr Kwarteng claimed that Drax’s practice of importing wood to burn from North America “doesn’t make any sense” and that “we haven’t actually questioned some of the premises of it”.
Drax’s Yorkshire plant burns around 7 million tonnes of wood pellets per year, most of which are imported from North America.
The energy generated is classed as renewable, and the company has recently claimed it could even be labelled “negative emissions” if it begins capturing and storing carbon emissions from the site’s smoke stacks using experimental technology.
Last year, Drax received £893m of taxpayer subsidies for burning forest biomass, according to energy think tank Ember, adding £11.60 to the average household energy bill.
This year it is expected to receive another £884m, taking the total amount of subsidies it has received since 2012 to £6.5bn.
From 2023 to 2027, the company is on course to receive another £4.5bn.
However, Mr Kwarteng, the Business Secretary, recently poured cold water on Drax’s eco claims.
Speaking to MPs, he was secretly recorded saying that the Government could soon “end” the burning of wood for power - before adding: “We haven’t quite reached that point yet.”
According to the Guardian, he added: “We haven’t actually questioned some of the [sustainability] premises of it.
“There’s no point getting it from Louisiana – that isn’t sustainable … transporting these wood pellets halfway across the world – that doesn’t make any sense to me at all.”
A government spokesman said: “The Business Secretary has always been clear that biomass has a key role to play in boosting Britain’s energy security, having supplied enough reliable renewable electricity to keep the lights on for 4 million households.
“The more home-grown power like biomass we generate at home, the less exposed we’ll be to volatile gas prices pushing up bills.
“The UK Government only supports biomass which complies with our strict sustainability criteria, and with carbon capture and storage, it can permanently remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.”
A Drax spokesperson said 75pc of the material that goes into the plant’s wood pellets was sawdust, chips, and dead and diseased wood that would otherwise be sent to landfill or burned anyway.
She added: “We are confident that the biomass Drax uses delivers positive outcomes for people, the climate and nature. We agree that timber, produced from sawlogs, would not be a sustainable form of biomass and that’s why we don’t use it to make our wood pellets.
“The biomass Drax uses includes saw dust, wood shavings and other forest residues discarded when the sustainable forests we source from are harvested for high value timber used in construction and furniture making.
“This material would have been burned or landfilled if it wasn’t used for bioenergy. The low grade roundwood we use is diseased, damaged, misshapen wood, which has no other use having been rejected by sawmills because it is not suitable for use in furniture or construction.” |
I am expecting DRAX to BREAKDOWN BELOW £7. Good price will be at £5.25 |
GECK
Which bit is exaggerating? |
alfpenny17 Aug '22 - 10:17 - 3634 of 3639
0 0 1
DRAX at Risk due to Government Levy becoming more likely. PM candidates highlighted Nothing is absolutely off the table so I expect 700 to be tested soon.
...Last time you showed up here you were talking about £4 a share.... |
Castle.
Lmao.
Drax isnt holding anything of the sort.
All govt has to do is take away the "Green" related subsidies as Drax Biomass is anything but green, and they're toast. |
Drax is holding the ACES not the Government
tiger |
DRAX at Risk due to Government Levy becoming more likely. PM candidates highlighted Nothing is absolutely off the table so I expect 700 to be tested soon. |
I'm a great advocate of a hot water bottle!
Still a total disaster for the economy as its doubling living costs for those without debt. Must be a total disaster for large gas users as well. |
Agree
But business is paying these prices and competing against other countries.
Its all a shambles |
You could not make it up.
Kwarteng wants to take a look at Germany.
Is it 60 or 80 COAL power stations in GERMANY that are ACTIVE and we have just blown two up less than 10 miles from DRAX.
Ministers got us in this mess.
They should remember they are PAYING DRAX to keep the last 2 coal units on standby.
The above article sums it up.
Yes but No but Yes but No............... |
UK minister questions sustainability of Drax biomass fuel
Kwarteng says shipping wood pellets from Louisiana is costly and ‘doesn’t make any sense’
The UK’s business secretary has admitted that importing US-made wood pellets to be burnt for energy by power company Drax is not sustainable and “doesn’t make any sense”.
Kwasi Kwarteng also told MPs that the government had not fully investigated the sustainability of burning wood pellets, a type of biomass. He said the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy had discussed biomass with industry but “we haven’t actually questioned some of the premises” of the sustainability of pellets.
The government has spent millions subsidising the burning of pellets in Drax’s Yorkshire facility over the past decade and the fuel features prominently in the UK’s net zero strategy.
Kwarteng made the comments this week during a meeting with a group of cross-party backbench MPs, who raised concerns about the sustainability of wood pellets, which are described as renewable by Drax.
“There’s no point getting [wood pellets] from Louisiana . . . that isn’t sustainable,” said Kwarteng. Shipping pellets from Louisiana — one of Drax’s sourcing regions in the US — has “a huge cost financially and environmentally . . . [it] doesn’t make any sense to me at all,” he added.
Drax has been gradually converting its coal-fired power station to biomass power and is seeking to reinvent itself as a green energy company. The company, which imports about 80 per cent of the wood pellets it uses in the plant from North America, received around £832mn in government subsidies in 2020 and about £790mn in 2019, according to analysis by think-tank Ember.
That support is due to expire in 2027, but the company is seeking new subsidies for the development of biomass paired with carbon capture and storage technology, known as Beccs.
Drax argues that its pellets are responsibly sourced and that the emissions produced by their combustion are offset by the growth of new carbon-absorbing trees.
However, numerous environmental groups and scientists have questioned these claims. They argue that it takes a long time for trees to absorb carbon, that importing pellets is emissions-intensive and that the large-scale harvesting of wood threatens ecosystems.
In January, David Joffe of the Climate Change Committee, which advises the government, said there were “big challenges about ensuring the sustainability of biomass grown outside the UK”. He added that imported biomass was “not something that the UK should be relying on at large scale”. However, the committee has stressed the need for some biomass energy if the UK is to reach its target of net zero carbon emissions by 2050.
Allies of Kwarteng confirmed that he had raised concerns about Drax’s use of pellets imported from the US. But he was said by colleagues to remain fully supportive of the company and the biomass sector, which they said was a vital baseload provider for the UK power network.
“Without Drax, the UK would have to import more electricity from Europe at a time when the continent is in serious trouble,” said a government official.
In the meeting with MPs, Kwarteng admitted that biomass had not developed as quickly as other renewable fuels, such as offshore wind and hydrogen.
“I can well see a point where we just draw the line and say [biomass] isn’t working, this doesn’t help carbon emission reduction and so we should end it,” he said. “All I’m saying is that we haven’t quite reached that point yet.”
The government’s net zero strategy envisages that the use of Beccs would account for two-thirds of so-called “negative emissions” — or technologies that remove carbon from the atmosphere — in the UK by 2050.
It has committed £1bn for the development of a carbon capture sector, including £30mn to support the production of “sustainable domestic biomass.” The business department also said it would “develop markets and incentives” to support investment in emissions removal technologies including Beccs
“The business secretary has always been clear biomass has a key role to play in boosting Britain’s energy security,” said a government spokesperson. “The UK government only supports biomass which complies with our strict sustainability criteria and will shortly publish our biomass strategy which will further detail our position on its future use.”
A Drax spokesperson said the company “is one of Europe’s lowest carbon intensity power generators and our sustainable biomass is critical to UK energy security, supplying enough reliable renewable electricity to keep the lights on for 4mn households”. |
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