Creo Medical Share Discussion Threads

[dr biotech] 07/7/2024 19:24

Latest note from Edison. Getting the Creo kit onto the Da Vinci systems would be huge.


hxxps://www.edisongroup.com/research/intuitive-deal-expansion-is-a-notable-milestone/33787/

[dr biotech] 05/7/2024 12:43

Margins should improve as they substitute Creo's own label products for their 3rd party offerings. Plus of course their new products are all own label and should be higher margin. If/when they get FDA approval they may also be able to sell at a higher price. Increasing the volumes rather than the margins is my key concern.

[peterrr3] 04/7/2024 05:31

Thanks Dr B, still plenty of homework for me to do on the finer points of the tech.Innovate the gross margins actually look fine in hindsight and the comment was simplistic and flippant, but there is a big disconnect between gross profit shown and the operating losses in the cash flow which won't all be down to R&D. They have also been capitalising development costs in the same period as selling the product, otherwise the profit margin would look worse than the previous year, so there's some working of the figures on the edge of what's allowable. Looking at a couple of peers, net profit of about 20 to 30 percent seems a good target.

[peterrr3] 02/7/2024 14:26

I should add that I have spent some time with patents incidental to prior M&A roles, albeit a long time ago and Creo's seemed particularly well drafted and robust until the recent swag which seemed to have some ambit claims bolted on.

[peterrr3] 02/7/2024 13:42

Hi innovate, my patent points we're from the application reviews on wipo, the fact there has not been a supplemental lodged and having looked at the prior I agree with the reviewer who was quite blunt although obviously I fall well short of the technical skills to form an objective assessment.

[dr biotech] 02/7/2024 13:06

Key patents would be use of bipolar rather than monopolar energy. Thats gives the control. One of the things with this is that it rarely causes smoking when in use. Its noticeable that the biggest operator in the monopolar space is a company called Erbe medical - look at the amount of smoke and sparking that their instrument cause - they even have unit to absorb the smoke as its so much of a problem.

The Creo tech is way better. Of course the Erbe equipment still does a good job and there are techs that will be very comfortable with it. That is why its so important to get our gear in the hospitals or to get the endoscopists using it at conferences etc

[innnovate] 02/7/2024 11:56

Thanks for the contributions peterrr3.

Couple of questions if I may:

1. per pushback on the diagnostic and microwave patent applications, are you deriving your conclusions based on office actions (which can be rebutted), or have these applications been abandoned entirely by Creo. It is not uncommon for office actions to be negative as a first pass with respect to all (or a subset of) claims which can then be modified.

2. per patents, claims may be refused either by over-reach and/or because of prior art. If the latter, do you get any sense of whether or not Creo then retains freedom to operate in those specific areas (ie any blocking IP from others).

3. You mentioned that manufacturing costs were 'too high' vs sales volumes. On what information do you base this conclusions?

[peterrr3] 02/7/2024 10:27

Thanks Dr B I was unaware of the pricing flexibility. I'm all in favour of a wide trial base for raising the profile, especially with the gold standard partner, well worth the financial strain. For info the diagnostic and microwave didn't pass patent application, but the overall mechanics did. Refer to my too wide a grab comment below.

[dr biotech] 02/7/2024 10:17

Also one of the things I learned at the AGM is that the price of the box is quite flexible- if a customer is a potential high user they can give to them at a low cost (or a cost that doesn’t need a capital budget) - whereas they can charge more for Low volume users.

Getting the equipment out into the hands of users is a good thing. This has potential uses with multiple early stage tumours not just the lung. The potential is huge.

[nimbo10] 02/7/2024 09:12

It might actually improve if commercial sales are done in shorter times down to accelerated number of sites taking part. An extra 5-10 units is not much when it's all manufactured in house and no of spares they would stock.

[peterrr3] 02/7/2024 07:50

Very good news, but it is a shame they have to provide all the trial units for free, so cash flow will remain a problem.

[peterrr3] 30/6/2024 20:28

I have only a small position in Creo due to a few unknowns, NICE review doesn't even have a start date, recent patent applications looked like too wide a grab so only partially accepted, albeit mechanical cutter ok. I see comments such as generally accepted and prior art as muddying the waters for licensing some great tech and the costs of production are also high compared to sales volumes and I don't see efforts to rein that in. I don't mind adding a few on weakness but I think the odds of another funding round is currently better than even.

[hope1815] 29/6/2024 10:40

Noticed Creo and been researching the company. It has done a Cash raise in 2023 and looking to break even in 2025. The cost savings it has given the NHS on its product seems to have been undervalued. With pressure on NHS with savings a company like CREO is well placed and the share price is low,

There was a similar Welsh Company sold not long ago the founder retired selling out at a low point, that company went for 400 Million not long ago to a USA Medical firm.

Happy Investing

[peterrr3] 26/6/2024 19:17

Thanks Dr B. Actually got more out of your report than from the company releases. I think the price will drift down and I'll add when I think it is bottoming out as I expect a pump prior to any cash top up.

[nibble] 26/6/2024 17:06

Thanks for the feedback DB. Hope you felt your time was well spent.

[dr biotech] 26/6/2024 16:46

FWIW I went to the AGM today - its nearish to me. I wasn't allowed to vote as I'm a nominee holder but otherwise I felt welcome. Had a decent chat to the CEO and other members of staff (the tech directors PA was particularly helpful). The all seem to be pulling in the same direction. I was the only PI there though there were some other professional investors.

No particular insights in to the commercial side of the business, though I feel they are pleased with their robotics partners (said intuitive had a choice of multiple partners and chose them as their tech is the best). The middle east uni may also prove to be more important than I first realised.


General feeling I got is that the clinical results will take time to feed through to sales, though some customers are really running with it already. One customer in Thailand has already used it 100 times. The bipolar ablation is vastly superior to monopolar as its much more accurate and results in a lot less collateral damage.

Some of the applications with early stage tumours have enormous potential. Just a case of getting to breakeven....which we all know is where the risk lies.

[dr biotech] 04/6/2024 12:50

Thanks - decent if somewhat soft interview. I guess he can't divulge financially sensitive information off the record. Partnerships and milestones seems to be the key in the next 12-18months. Getting good lung ablation stats could be a significant trigger.

[bloomberg2] 04/6/2024 10:51

https://x.com/rckhlld/status/1797918192557494595?s=46&t=WZzoFQM8kpCT88d1sI2kew

[dr biotech] 27/5/2024 22:35

Nice find. Lets hope she stays cancer free and that its repeated with the other patients.

[someuwin] 27/5/2024 21:25

Good story about CREO in the Daily Mail.

"A 7cm tumour made my lung collapse and was too near my heart to operate. But I'm now cancer-free thanks to an incredible new robot treatment."



The original is behind a paywall, But you can read it here thanks to Google's cache...

[innnovate] 22/5/2024 18:57

This posted today from another board:

Shares in Creo Medical Group PLC (AIM:CREO), a company specialising in surgical endoscopy and advanced energy licensing, are rated by Deutsche Bank as 'buy' up to 80p.

In a short update in the wake of full-year results, the German outfit flagged as its key highlight the approval and launch of the Speedboat UltraSlim, which improves compatibility with a broader range of endoscopes. This development is expected to enhance the company's market position and drive future growth.

According to DB, the numbers were all in line with expectations. Sales grew by 13% to £30.8 million, while core technology revenues, including the Speedboat device, increased significantly from £0.9 million in FY22 to £2.3 million in FY23. Combined licensing and core technology sales amounted to £4 million. Consumables sales grew by 8% to £26.8 million. Creo Medical ended the year with a net cash position of £18.5 million.

In afternoon trading the stock was up 1.3% at 36.98p.

[nchanning] 22/5/2024 10:04

Love the business would like to be involved but can't touch anything on AIM that needs cash soon at the moment .

[bloomberg2] 20/5/2024 13:11

https://www.edisongroup.com/research/setting-the-stage-for-pivotal-growth/33606/

[dr biotech] 17/5/2024 16:05

They did also suggest other forms of non dilutive cash raising that may be possible in the next few months. Anything that could lengthen the cash runway by several months and these should pop.

I would say I didn't like the wording in the RNS - "14% above last years average" - would much rather they just quoted numbers, even if unaudited.

I'm expecting a linear rise in sales, not exponential. Would of course accept the latter