Caffyns Share Discussion Threads

[ntv] 23/2/2018 14:14

it didn't move when his holding was announced so i left it thinking the seller might have a few left and on the right day i could pick up a few on the quiet.
still might get another chance
good luck trying to change this outfit though because of the big problem with the share capital because of the preference shares
still think diesel car sales have further falls ahead so i am sure there will be chance at lower prices again

[spob] 23/2/2018 13:06

I've topped up with a few more too

[spob] 23/2/2018 13:05

Thanks for drawing attention to this

I wouldn't have noticed

Could be an interesting development

[cjohn] 23/2/2018 12:37

I've been buying more here at around 400.

The serious discount to tangible asset value has been too tempting.

Getting Perloff involved is a definite plus.

[cjohn] 23/2/2018 11:47

So Andrew Perloff, the chairman and majority owner of Panther Securites, has taken a
4.82% stake in Caffyns.

Perloff is a property investor.

[pillion] 23/11/2017 15:55

Quite right too TC
Results tomorrow

[turbocharge] 07/11/2017 15:03

Well, the bearish signals seem to have been borne out...

[cjohn] 02/11/2017 11:06

Hi Value Hound,

It's true that the share is trading at about 0.45 PTBV. It's worth noting though that there have been revaluations of the freehold property, which would add about 10m sterling to asset value, if the revaluation was included on the balance sheet. So the balance sheet understates value here.

Including the property surplus, they are trading at around a third of net tangible asset value.

Whether there will be a catalyst to out this value is another question. (The preference shares make a takover much less likely.)

[ntv] 29/10/2017 13:13

it is here until they decide otherwise. pref share are effectively ord shares so best to value them that way as they count as 1 vote in the unlikely event of a deal

[clemo69] 25/10/2017 08:23

Totally agree. The prefs are a major pain in valuing Caffyns. They are on the balance sheet at a low value however in a takeover situation as far as I can see would be worth potentially a lot making it difficult to value. However it still looks extremely cheap. If the prefs were geniunely worth what they say they are on balance sheet this would be the cheapest share I have ever seen.

[value hound] 24/10/2017 11:42

This has to be just about the cheapest share out there? Of course the future may not look rosy for car dealers, but the balance sheet is rock-solid (ptbv now 0.45) so it's a share safe to average down on IMO when the markets perceive it's a bad time cyclically.

If it wasn't for the voting rights of the Prefs which give the Caffyn family effective control (they own 21.4% of the ords) this would be a lot higher.

[turbocharge] 12/8/2017 14:32

Just started looking at this company, looks interesting, and good discussion going on on this forum. Thinking of possibly buying some for my portfolio long / medium term. But some of the chart signals I've seen suggest maybe I should wait a while:

11 Aug 2017 WEEKLY
Intermediate-Term Bearish 490.00 Price Crosses Moving Average (21-week)

09 Aug 2017
DAILY Short-Term Bearish 490.00 Price Crosses Moving Average (21-day)
DAILY Intermediate-Term Bearish 490.00 Price Crosses Moving Average (50-day)
DAILY Short-Term Bearish 490.00 Momentum

04 Aug 2017
WEEKLY Intermediate-Term Bullish 500.00

Any thoughts what price would be a good entry point...?

[clemo69] 07/7/2017 09:29

Coolen - Putting the above into simple language. Can the prefs stop a takeover? Say a bid of 30mil came in could the pref holders ask for 10mil say or we won't vote it through. Could the bidder just say to the preferred holders well your getting 1 mil and thats it. What sort of power would the pref holders have in your opinion??

[cjohn] 05/7/2017 10:33

Thanks Coolen for the informative post.

[coolen] 19/6/2017 23:18

Re the voting rights in a bid situation, in my personal view:

(1)The family held prefs are fully enfranchised were there to be a take-over bid;

(2) A bid for the Company would not be "Class 1" transaction, unless it arose out of a complex merger or similar.

To gain control, a bidder would first need to negotiate a price for the family prefs. In conjunction with that, the Panel would demand an "appropriate" offer be extended to the Ords.

In practice, any bidder will need to sit down with the Panel in advance to agree how the Offer should be split. If both parties ignored the Takeover Panel it would be a unique situation.

In assessing the voting rights in a bid situation the order of priorities is:
1. The Company's own Articles of Association;
2. Company law generally;
3. The rules of the Take-over Panel.

Ironically, the losers in the event of a Bid would be the 7% First Preference shareholders. Under the ridiculous Panel rules, non-voting prefs can be ignored in a bid situation, leaving them at the mercy of the new private owners. This rule causes much anger amongst specialist fund managers.

[sirhedgealot] 19/6/2017 14:12

If you stay invested for five years maybe they could award preference shares so the main stock holders can make money too. :P

[orinocor] 06/6/2017 09:20

hxxps://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/3458353/fears-of-uk-car-financing-industry-crash-as-claims-surface-of-loans-mis-sold-to-poorer-customers-who-cant-afford-to-repay/

Are Caffyns exposed to this?

[3800] 29/5/2017 13:04

Hi brwo, if you look back on this bullitin board to post 121 a poster with the user name Simon Templar QC who mounted a legal challenge, the details can be found in the RNS link which is included in the post. I'm not sure if he still has any holding or even if he is still alive.
3800

[brwo349] 28/5/2017 21:56

Well on looking in more detail at the prefs I've discovered the 2 million 2nd preference shares cannot vote on any resolution to delist the shares of the company or transfer the shares to another listing status. Only the premium ordinary shares can vote on that. This is very important to the investment case here and makes the shares much more attractive. These prefs pay an extremely small coupon and I question if they have much real value. Muckshifter is sceptical they can block a take-over and I tend to agree but I've no hard evidence as yet. Has anyone tried contacting someone at the company on this issue?

This is a stunningly cheap stock. How does it compare with other stocks in the sector?

[brwo349] 26/5/2017 16:15

I took some earlier but I need to take a closer look at the accounts over the week-end before taking a bigger position.

[jimblack513] 26/5/2017 15:39

That's completely wrong WJCCGHCC. The pension deficit has been accounted for, the property uplift has not.

[wjccghcc] 26/5/2017 12:47

You'd have to knock the pension deficit off that amount + quite a bit if they wanted an insurer to buy out the pension fund so pension normalisation would take more than the 10mm property uplift IMHO.

[jimblack513] 26/5/2017 12:03

You need to view the annual report on www.caffynsplc.co.uk

[brwo349] 26/5/2017 11:24

Where does it say the properties are freehold? All I can see is the unaccounted for £10M upward valuation but no mention of the total value of the freeholds.