Bt Share Discussion Threads

[careful] 01/11/2017 21:04

BT and RMG used to be joined at the hip.
Government owned.
letters and land lines, jobs for life.
Union power.
Generous final salary pensions.
What could change they thought.

All theoretically possible in times of inflation and lower life expectancy.
Retirees had final salary pension that were quickly eroded by inflation.
And they only drew them for a shorter time.

In both cases, RMG and BT it must be sorted.
Things may get rough.
Almost every other company has made this change,
usually preserving already accrued benefits, and generous arrangement to follow.

[pacemaker1000] 01/11/2017 21:03

From an inside point of view I can’t see the scheme closing. Members will be asked to contribute more or receive less, or both as happened last time in 2009.
Saying that there is a divide and conquer strategy that has worked before. As they make up the majority of members the union is more interested in improving the pensions of post 2001 staff who’s current scheme is woeful on its own without comparing it to the ‘gold plated’ pension of the old timers. They would support a proposal that improves this scheme at the deficit of the BTPS.
As a vote would be conducted of ALL members this would sail through so Kazoos has a point that a strike would never happen!

[montyhedge] 01/11/2017 20:48

KazoosRead and learn idiot, they won't take this lying down.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/05/30/unions-absolute-opposition-bt-pension-scheme-closure/

[montyhedge] 01/11/2017 20:41

KazoosDo you want to bet. Cut the pension deficit so shareholders can have dividends,. They could reduced deficit easily with dividend cuts.

[careful] 01/11/2017 20:30

the new Chairman and Gavin Patterson will have to manage BT properly.
The culture will need to be changed.
BT are not strong enough to be one of the few remaining companies to support an expensive pension fund.

[eisler] 01/11/2017 20:28

Strike? Is there not only 33k of contributing members/68k of deferred and over 200k of pensioners? Am I missing something?

[kazoom] 01/11/2017 20:16

monty - DON'T MAKE YOURSELF LOOK AN IDIOT. There would be no majority in the unions opposing a pension reformation.

Do try to keep up and retain the illusion that you have a clue.

[montyhedge] 01/11/2017 20:02

Unions won't have this, cut pensions so shareholders maintain their dividends.

[kazoom] 01/11/2017 19:58

By the way and I'm sure that no-one gives a damn given that there often seem to be "post event" disclosures from some people. I thought would disclose my position.

I posted a few days ago that I had taken out a trading position (at a lower price than shanieboy - so clearly a smart trade!) I decided earlier today to close it for a loss, not because I think the statement will be a disaster, but simply because I have tweaked my strategy to accelerate my gains.

I am still of the view that BT will be trading much higher than now in 12 months time. I have no real view about the close price tomorrow, but I think the other place I have parked my money will give a much better return in 3-6 months.


See I told you it was not interesting.

[eisler] 01/11/2017 18:57

It's the way things have been going for years. The UK's 6000 remaining private sector defined benefit schemes in 2016 saw 35% of them closed to future accrual, up from 12% just ten years earlier. I lost my final salary pension in 2010 through a TUPE process (pensions not protected) and was given a far inferior money purchase product. These schemes will all be dead in the next few years.

[kazoom] 01/11/2017 18:53

Oh and toon1966 (Am I correct in guessing you are 51? )

That would mean that you are in Section C of the scheme?

So the CPI vs RPI change would be slightly bad for you. (But probably still better than the appreciation in "final salary" you would get if still employed by BT).

Closure to new accruals though would have no impact on you, so as a shareholder a clear positive. (The only downside would be that you might have some old friends / former colleagues for whom it would not be so good.

[kazoom] 01/11/2017 18:48

I can't really see that Monty, full closure of the scheme to new accruals would impact less than 30,000 of BT's staff. Many of those would take it on the chin because either :
(1) They have so few years left to contribute it makes liitle difference
or
(2) they actually understand that it's not THAT unreasonable
or
(3) because they're generally apathetic.
or
(4) because they think it is more important to stay onside with the company so that their final salary is as high as possible.

The majority of staff not eligible for the DB scheme at all are unlikely to have much sympathy for those "lucky" enough to have the "Rolls Royce" pension scheme, so would not strike for something they are denied anyway.

Plus it is entirely possible that BT would offer some form of limited sweetner to the <30,000.

I couldn't find any stats on the average number of years active members of the scheme have left to contribute, but I would imagine it is quite a low number.

[careful] 01/11/2017 18:45

Research shows that over 90% of FTSE100 have closed their final salary pension funds.
For FTSE250 companies only 8 remain.
It is expected that they all will disappear with a year or two.

Industrial action is futile.
The new defined benefits schemes are generous and more realistic.
Crazy to strike, why would they want to cripple the company where they work?
Any management that gives in to such pressure would look incompetent.

The negotiation will be about the terms of any new scheme.

[montyhedge] 01/11/2017 17:49

EislerI would say if they tried that, strikes would follow. Employees won't have that surely.

[toon1966] 01/11/2017 17:27

Thanks eisler and nw99. Here's the full article hxxp://news.sky.com/story/bt-staff-face-pension-cuts-as-defined-benefit-scheme-nears-axe-11108764 - please note this pension move is separate to the proposed change from CPI to RPI. I'm personally stuck in the middle on pensions, I'm a shareholder and have a deferred pension, but suspect there are plenty of other people in my position!!

[eisler] 01/11/2017 16:45

Thousands of BT employees will be told later this month of proposed cuts to their pension benefits as the telecoms giant wrestles with a near-£14bn deficit in its retirement schemes.
Sky News understands that BT Group will say on Thursday alongside its half-year results announcement to the City that it is close to setting out a concrete plan to slash the soaring cost of its pension obligations.
Sources said the company was leaning towards closing the BT Pension Scheme to future accruals and moving the remaining years of members' pensions to its defined contribution scheme.
The move comes as BT prepares to outline a new formula for paying its prized dividend following recent speculation that it could be cut after a difficult few months for the company.
The telecoms, broadband and pay-television provider - which competes with Sky plc, the owner of Sky News - will avoid such a reduction, according to sources, but will switch to a model that will re-weight the dividend towards the second half of its financial year, according to analysts.

[nw99] 01/11/2017 16:36

Revealed: BT Group to confirm plan to axe defined benefit pension scheme this month as new chairman backs CEO.£3 tmrw

[toon1966] 01/11/2017 16:29

As always Monty giving himself a good margin of error......

[dmf] 01/11/2017 16:03

If share price in 'free fall' tomorrow, will buy on the drop !

[montyhedge] 01/11/2017 15:45

Back from golf, well tomorrow the big day. 245p or 285p.

[andy84uk] 01/11/2017 13:49

Considering the price is now under £2.65, surely their guidance should be neutral. Unless of course they haven't even bothered checking the price and just published it again.

[dmf] 01/11/2017 13:41

DB sell reiterated - target 265 (unchanged)