Auction Technology Share Discussion Threads

[saud2237] 20/6/2012 06:42

Something that just occurred to me. How can rc control and own the tech division if its sold

[silkstag] 19/6/2012 17:39

Saud, Winks/Pearson had to admit in the 13-6-2012 RNS, which you ignore for some reason, that:"...Technology division...net proceeds will almost certainly not be sufficient to repay in full the Company's bank debt and other liabilities...Directors consider that it is probable that there is no value in the Company's ordinary share capital...taking account of the ability of the Company to pay all creditors which will include consideration of an insolvency process".

Bank (now RC) was owed £1.5m. Other net liabilities are ballpark £4m. We found out on 13 June that Tech sale wouldn't even cover the bank's £1.5m (hence their bailout to RC). So you are peddling out of date Stinky Winks Porky Pies. Which you will understand is rather unappetising.

[27howard] 19/6/2012 16:51

It is well established now saud that those two tech business's are not very profitable and highly promising, I fell for the same paragraph but thanks to SilkStag persistent and correct posts he saves a few here a lot of money.
But you will be selling anyway in the morning, you did the same with PAA, Care, Cicr, and I'm sure plenty of others.

[saud2237] 19/6/2012 16:44

silk - speak to the CEO of the company. I am just passing on what was said on 10th of May

Nick Winks, Chairman, commented


"Having tried, unsuccessfully, to persuade investors to back our efforts to raise new equity to pay down both bank and vendor debt, we are now working with our bank to find an alternative solution. We have two profitable and highly promising technology businesses which will now have to be sold to pay this historic debt. We believe that these businesses should be sold for an amount that is greater than that owed to the bank. "

[27howard] 19/6/2012 16:28

I've seen that subtle opinion loads of times, afraid saud is a pump and dumper, we all trade shares but you sold a stock less than a hour after ramping it and I have the thread and posts as I remember it will saud :-))

[silkstag] 19/6/2012 16:27

Saud, you post 'This company had revenues in excess of 20 million!' but that is misleading as that includes the Media and Health division which were sold and shut down.

Only tech divison is left (and small property diviiosn which is worthless and dying). RC do want to grow Tech, which is why they will protect and control it by taking it out of Adventis plc. They will indeed want to onsell Tech in future.

Adventis will be left with £4m other net HMRC/trade creditors and nothing to pay them with. RC wont touch Adventis balance sheet with a bargepole.

This is a standard asset strip using the security. Page 1 of the Hyena Bible.

[saud2237] 19/6/2012 16:16

I am not pumping nor dumping just giving my opinion. I am in BSP and thats what I am going to stick to. I was just curious at what caused the rise thats all. DYOR

[bozzy_s] 19/6/2012 15:53

There's your SELL sign, saud the pump and dumper is here. Never holds a stock for more than a day - just as well in this case. Seen him pop up on dozens of micro-caps, spouting rubbish, and gone in a flash.

Probably best to listen to the good research of Silkstag and the wise words of an experienced trader Simon Cawkwell. His book is a good read and pump/dumpers like Saud would be well advised to take advice from it.

[saud2237] 19/6/2012 15:23

This is a tricky one but what I do know is that RC is constantly looking for opportunities like this. Think about it. This company had revenues in excess of 20 million ! ok fair enough it is not making money and is in the position it is today but MAYBE just MAYBE RC identified this as an opportunity to turn it around. This is a high risk punt but one that can have SIGNIFICANT returns

[silkstag] 19/6/2012 15:14

mally6, this way avoids any negotiation with Adventis. They bought the LTSB debt for say £1m. They dont want the subsidiaries, they will buy the businesses, ie stripping out the trades/assets and leaving unwanted liabilities behind eg HMRC, rent, Adventis plc etc. They can 'outbid' other buyers by 'paying' £1.5m for the businesses, knowing full well that the Administrator will give them back that £1.5m for their secured debt. This way they get the businesses cleanly for whatever they paid LTSB. And LTSB walk away from the mess as it is now 'nothing to do with them'.

No 'guess work' needed. This plan is page 1 of the Hyena Bible.

You say 'certainly in with a lifeline'. Razor-sharp teeth slamming into Adventis plc throat and flesh is not a 'lifeline'. It is an uglier death than was on the cards.

[mally6] 19/6/2012 14:43

we need clarification from bod until then its guess work but certainly in with a lifeline derampers were there at .15 good job i didnt listen

[mally6] 19/6/2012 14:36

why wouldnt rc capital just buy the 2 tec companies of atg who have been trying to sell if that was the case

[silkstag] 19/6/2012 14:02

Mally6, your post is false. Adventis did not 'pay debt off' and you should not be saying that it did. LTSB privately sold its £1.5m secured debt to RCapital. Adventis now owes that same £1.5m to RCapital.

You misunderstand. The two tech businesses RC want will not go into Administration, they will be sold to a new shell company 'Hyena Ltd' owned by RC (and maybe tech management). The cash Hyena Ltd pays to Adventis will in due course be looped back to RC as they are the secured creditor in Adventis. The dead Adventis plc will be placed into Administration or Liquidation.

Here, the Adventis shareholders may approve this deal before an Administrator is appionted. If not, the Adninistrator will approve the pre-arranged deal within 48 hours of his appointment. That is called a pre-packed Administration.

Gritsle left for unsecured creditors. Zero for shareholders.

ps I agree with SC post above which crossed in cyber-space. Outcome for unsecured creditors got worse today. Shareholders have been dead for ages.

[simon cawkwell] 19/6/2012 13:52

mally6,

The discount at which the debt was sold has not been disclosed but the face value of the debt is the claim in the liquidation. That has not gone down. So things for shareholders are even worse - because even more clear cut. The shares are palpably valueless.

Simon Cawkwell

[mally6] 19/6/2012 13:38

why would the pay debt off and go into admin.think about it.the only reason to pay debt off is to keep atg going and rc capital has seen this oppurtunity and taken its bite.

[mally6] 19/6/2012 13:14

what if rc capital refinance atg buy in at a discount and turn it around into
a profitable business which it already is.thats where the money is for rc capital and thats there speciality.2 mill debt is not much for them

[tomboyb] 19/6/2012 13:02

I'm afraid that is correct - looking at the balance sheet even with todays's announcement i can't see current shareholders getting anything here

[silkstag] 19/6/2012 12:54

RCapital now owns the bank's £1.5m debt. It will be part re-paid and the balance going into newco with the tech businesses. Approved by ATG shareholders (or Administrator if they petulantly refuse). Then Adventis plc is placed into liquidation.

Likely liquidatuion deficit for unsecured creditors probably went up with this news. -6p to -8p is now predicted range.

ps Mundaka, 'Looks like great news for holders today' is a bizarre and incorrect post.

[mally6] 19/6/2012 11:58

RCapital have bought atg debt have they also got a shareholding here need atg bod to clarify here as whats happening

[tomboyb] 19/6/2012 11:21

Looking at the balance sheet and working out what debt is left other than the one rcapital has bought up -

[mundaka] 19/6/2012 11:16

Looks like great news for holders today, Rcapital seems to know what they are doing.