we need clarification from bod until then its guess work but certainly in with a lifeline derampers were there at .15 good job i didnt listen |
why wouldnt rc capital just buy the 2 tec companies of atg who have been trying to sell if that was the case |
 Mally6, your post is false. Adventis did not 'pay debt off' and you should not be saying that it did. LTSB privately sold its £1.5m secured debt to RCapital. Adventis now owes that same £1.5m to RCapital.
You misunderstand. The two tech businesses RC want will not go into Administration, they will be sold to a new shell company 'Hyena Ltd' owned by RC (and maybe tech management). The cash Hyena Ltd pays to Adventis will in due course be looped back to RC as they are the secured creditor in Adventis. The dead Adventis plc will be placed into Administration or Liquidation.
Here, the Adventis shareholders may approve this deal before an Administrator is appionted. If not, the Adninistrator will approve the pre-arranged deal within 48 hours of his appointment. That is called a pre-packed Administration.
Gritsle left for unsecured creditors. Zero for shareholders.
ps I agree with SC post above which crossed in cyber-space. Outcome for unsecured creditors got worse today. Shareholders have been dead for ages. |
mally6,
The discount at which the debt was sold has not been disclosed but the face value of the debt is the claim in the liquidation. That has not gone down. So things for shareholders are even worse - because even more clear cut. The shares are palpably valueless.
Simon Cawkwell |
why would the pay debt off and go into admin.think about it.the only reason to pay debt off is to keep atg going and rc capital has seen this oppurtunity and taken its bite. |
what if rc capital refinance atg buy in at a discount and turn it around into
a profitable business which it already is.thats where the money is for rc capital and thats there speciality.2 mill debt is not much for them |
I'm afraid that is correct - looking at the balance sheet even with todays's announcement i can't see current shareholders getting anything here |
RCapital now owns the bank's £1.5m debt. It will be part re-paid and the balance going into newco with the tech businesses. Approved by ATG shareholders (or Administrator if they petulantly refuse). Then Adventis plc is placed into liquidation.
Likely liquidatuion deficit for unsecured creditors probably went up with this news. -6p to -8p is now predicted range.
ps Mundaka, 'Looks like great news for holders today' is a bizarre and incorrect post. |
RCapital have bought atg debt have they also got a shareholding here need atg bod to clarify here as whats happening |
Looking at the balance sheet and working out what debt is left other than the one rcapital has bought up - |
Looks like great news for holders today, Rcapital seems to know what they are doing. |
So, SS what do you make of today's announcement? A turnaround firm has acquired Lloyds' debt, presumably at a discount. It is interesting: Why would Lloyds sell their loan at a discount if they could look for full discharge from the sale of the technology business, given they were first in line for that? It can only mean the sale of the tech biz does not even cover the bank debt, let alone the other creditors.
What might the intentions of RCapital Partners be? If they wish to turn around the biz, they have to get rid of the debt. How to do that? Pre-pack admin or CVA. Either way, the equity will be zero. |
Is this what they mean by 'dash for trash'?
Just think - if I had not sold the the shares I bought at .15p the other day I
could have had a four bagger today. Just goes to show - not always a good idea clearing out all the old gunge. |
You have to laugh. |
BP, Digitalis and Rachit7 were in dialogue with Winks/Pearson and the penny must have dropped that Adventis deceived them repeatedly.
On 3-2-2012 I posted "I have accused the Adventis Directors of deceit and breaching AiM Rule 10 in their 20 January 2012 RNS...I believe ATG is in a c£5.8m black hole, is bust and shares will end up 0p when the deceit is exposed to all...Digitalis, you are a dupe propogating the Directors' deceit."
Digitalis reply on 3-2-2012 "stag look at my profile....i dont do dupe....tread carefully chum".
Digitalis, Winks/Pearson have duped your brains out, while you lay there gurgling 'oh, Stinky Winky, dupe me hard' and 'I'm your Digital Gimp, dupe me rough'.
Maybe this will coax Digitalis into apologising to the BB. Put another way, Digitalis, are you a dupe or a crook or both? Those are logically your only three choices. |
Winks/Pearson were forced to admit on 13-6-2012: "...Technology division...net proceeds will almost certainly not be sufficient to repay in full the Company's bank debt and other liabilities...Directors consider that it is probable that there is no value in the Company's ordinary share capital...taking account of the ability of the Company to pay all creditors which will include consideration of an insolvency process".
No more lies to tell. |
Just seen that. Surprised they haven't started brainless ramping on here to try and shift their insane purchase. |
Mug of the day perhaps ?
430k buyer at 0.4 ! |
Winks/Pearson have still failed to correct the false market expectation of performance they set on 20-1-2012: "2011, the Group is expected to report...revenues of approximately GBP29.0 million...operating profit before central costs of approximately GBP0.5 million. Central costs will be approximately GBP1.2 million before interest. In addition, exceptional reorganisation costs...closure of the Health division and restructuring of the board will be approximately GBP0.5 million. Goodwill impairments...Health division closure and sale of the Media businesses will be approximately GBP4.3 million". That implies loss of about £5.6m (assumes £0.1m interest).
Under AiM Rule 11, Winks Pearson (and Tom Griffiths at Westhouse Securities) are obliged to correct those false expectations 'without delay'. Deceiving the market is Adventis house style, so please note again, my 2011 expectation:
Soil on coffin 1) Loss £8-10m, not £5.6m.
Soil on coffin 2) Turnover £0 or maybe £9.5m, not £29m.
Soil on coffin 3) Creditor deficit ballpark £3m thus -6p per share.
Soil on coffin 4) Maybe also a loss on subletting Adventis House that Winks/Pearson have covered up to date. Given their track record of deceit, further horrors in the accounts should not surprise anyone.
Winks/Pearson may continue to cover up their false 20-1-2012 market expectations for 2011 until AiM Regulation or Tom Griffiths at Westhouse Securities or the FSA decide that AiM Rules should not be breached with impugnity, especially by directors with a track record of market deceit. |
At 16:25 22secs on Friday 15-6-2012 someone sold 189,604 shares at 0.18p. I assume that was a short.
Unless Directors, Nomad and AiM all show continued contempt for AiM Rule 11, by 8am Monday 18-6-2012, Winks/Pearson should issue the 2011 Prelims and Accounts or a trading update correcting the false numbers Winks/Pearson notified on 20-1-2012. As a reminder, my 2011 estiamtes:
Soil on coffin 1) Loss £8-10m, not the £5.5m they notified.
Soil on coffin 2) Turnover £0 or maybe £9.5m, not the £29m they notified.
Soil on coffin 3) Creditor deficit ballpark £3m thus -6p per share, not "directors view the future prospects of the Group with cautious optimism" they notified.
ATG share price should crunch down, guess 50-75%? If so, the mystery shorter can take his high profit margin, made within 5 market trading minutes of opening his short position. If it is 50-75% in under 5 mins, is that a record? |
BP, it is now Bid-Offer 0.15p-0.25p. I believe that will crunch down with the accounts to 0.03-0.05p or similar. Once tech is sold there is nothing left but the worthless property agency (which may be being sold for £1 or closed as we type), and people businesses just cannot trade with liquidation overhanging.
The 2011 accounts will show ballpark £8-10 loss in 2011, and £3m excess of creditors. There will just be nothing left to lie or dream about. Normally on AIM, eg technology or mining companies, there is some very remote chance that someone might buy the 'assets', but not here as there aren't any. Winks/Pearson have run Adventis as a Zombie Administration, so that dream (nightmare) has been played out over the past year.
In general, I concur with your observation, but in this unusually dead hopeless case, I disagree that it will apply. Still 75% profit potential within 7 days on a short today. Someone sold today 100,000 shares at 0.178p. I assume that is a short and be profitable.
I agree this is by no means certain, as it depends on human behaviour, which can often be irrational. But this is my prediction. |
SS, I think in theory you are correct. However, in reality, I have observed that, for whatever mysterious reasons, shares that remain listed never trade down to zero but always retain some share price level right down to the day of suspension or delisting, even if the shares are obviously worthless. I do not understand why, but I assume there must always be some punters who will buy a share at 0.1p in the hope that there will be some miraculous recovery, and at the same time there are few sellers because those that still hold the stock have already lost 99% of their capital, so they see no reason to sell now and recover some small change.
Therefore the only way to make money from a short here is to ride it all they way into suspension/delisting/administration, with the problems described in my earlier post. |
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