Alliance & Leicester Share Discussion Threads

[acamas] 15/9/2008 19:23

There is bound to be an end date in the takeover document after which if they do not achieve 75% the offer lapses. This very rarely happens in large takeovers like this one.

Normally the power brokers behind the deal on both sides have already worked out what they can guarantee to have in their pocket from the major shareholders. I shall be surprised if more than 25% of the stock is in the hands of PI's. I think you will find it is a done deal

[diydan] 15/9/2008 19:13

Thanks to both of you for the info. However I am a bit surpriced it was not fixed on the day of the deal. It would seem to me that the market is wide open to manipulation. For example if AL. had gone up in last month and Santandar gone down the offer would have become a very bad deal for AL. holders and may have said no. The reverse is obviously also true if AL. share price drops faster than Santandar then the holders of their shares may think they are paying too much. I had thought that at the time of the offer shares in both banks would have been suspended? Is there an end date for completion or do they wait till they get 75%
Thanks and regards to both.

[acamas] 15/9/2008 18:52

DIYDAN,

If you ignore price(£3) the offer is "1 Bank of Santander share for every 3 Alliance and Leicester Shares". Therefore the sterling amount realisable upon the sale of new Bank of Santander Share at the time it is delivered to the holder of A&L Shares will depend upon both the spot price of a Bank of Santander Share and the relevant exchange rate at the time.

What you are referring to is the suggested value of the deal on 8 August. Now on 10 October you will receive The New Bank of Santander shares. The number you get will be based on the above ratio of 1:3. You can then look at the Bank of Santander share price on that date and work out what the real deal price is, then add the divi on to that which I think is 18p per share and will be paid by A&L.

The thing to remember here is that we have not been offered cash for our A&L Shares. This is a paper deal from Bank of Santander which can only be converted to a cash figure on 10 October if you elect to sell the paper shares you have been offered.

Therefore it follows in theory that if everybody rushed to sell them on 10 October it could be a bit of a disappointment. I do not suspect that would occur but is a worst case scenario.

Conclusion this is a good deal for Bank of Santander


regards

[adh0] 15/9/2008 18:06

Isnt it a transfer of shares from AL to Santander, i should imagine Santander shares have fallen, so has the implied price of AL shares then?

Im guessing this i dont know for sure.

[diydan] 15/9/2008 17:19

I am a bit confused people. Why is this trading below the offer price of £3 after Div paid? When is the deal to go through?

[johnmp] 04/9/2008 07:17

so what price the div?

[acamas] 03/9/2008 08:42

I think so

[crazi] 03/9/2008 08:39

Haven't been following much recently. Why the kick in the teeth this morning...is it ex div day?

[acamas] 28/8/2008 12:49

k38,

Why do you keep referring to the £12 rejection of a year past. That is history which we all have to live with including The Directors who made that poor decision. With hindsight I bet they are now regretting it as a missed opportunity to have cashed in their chips big time. At four times present value their golden handshakes will have to come to something massive to better what they would have got with the £12 deal. The real winner here is whoever get A&L for £3 or thereabouts because A&L are a wounded animal and the laws of the jungle will prevail. imho

This is not a case for rights and wrongs it is more the follies we regret are those we did not commit when we had the opportunity. The epitaph for the departing A&L board of directors

[k38] 28/8/2008 11:23

...according to the Daily Telegraph last week???
who are they?...to they have incide info, that we don't have???
and why...The rejection of a £12 a share last year..... is irrelevant.
We prefer villas in Spain than France ;)

[acamas] 28/8/2008 09:05

One other point if the net asset value per share is 552p and you are buying the company for say 300p. A&L will pay the divi not Santander. Then that is a good deal perhaps Barclays have spotted that bargain also.

[acamas] 28/8/2008 08:44

Morning all.

Must say I was surprised by the IC's advice on its Takeover page last Friday. It suggested "Ignore" for the time being as there is still the possibility of a counter bid. Have to see what this Fridays edition brings.

[zipper] 28/8/2008 08:28

AL. will fit in well with Abbey National, Santander have recognised this
Santander are looking at a long term investment - possibly thats why barc are buying

Not like the shorttermism we are guilty of in this country!

[indieman] 28/8/2008 08:04

There's too much emotion and not enough realism on this thread.

A&L stands a real chance of failing if it tries to go it alone according to the Daily Telegraph last week. They recommend accepting the offer and holding on to the Santander shares.

The rejection of a £12 a share last year is irrelevant. The past is a another country; they do things differently there.

[k38] 28/8/2008 02:56

andrewlewis
im not a holder here,but i will buy 1 share just to vote NO to the deal.
As for Barclays i can't say why they buy AL.

[andrewlewis] 27/8/2008 20:39

k38

I feel your pain about the way AL. has been handled. What surprises me is how Barclays is buying a fair amount of shares over the past week. Are they doing it for Santander or what. Will there be a counter bid? And who?

[k38] 27/8/2008 11:50

Oh well it only takes one little boy in a suit with a tie to bring a whole bank to it's knees.

Is this what you call a safety net, to sell the business cheaply.
The fall of the housing market started in 2005. Are you telling me they didn't see this coming? ;)
The same directors refuse a takeover of around £12.
They have an obligation to do the best they can for the shareholders,yes but seems to me they take the easy way out with maximum benefits that they do not deserve.
The recovery may take a couple of years for houses to find their highs again but the banks are already making money .
A british Bank is where the money is kept at home and benefits the economy of this country.

stick two fingers up to this deal... Let them know.;)

[indieman] 27/8/2008 06:49

For heaven's sake, get real.

A recovery is not just around the corner but will take a couple of years. I've seen no evidence that banks are recovering their losses, just some indication that writedowns and write-offs may be overly pessimistic. That is the nature of the accounting beast.

The directors accepted the need for the deal because the BoE/FSA lent on them hard and they would be have to be very brave to stand up against that pressure.
They have an obligation to do the best they can for the shareholders. Should the bank fail after a takeover was rejected by the directors, it could be argued that they neglected to perform their fiduciary duty. In effect, they would be walking a frayed, dangerous tightrope without a safety net.

British Bank's what?

[k38] 26/8/2008 19:59

Banks are all already starting to recover their losses. A full recovery is just round the corner, but, will it be too late for A&L? I hope not.
If the deal does not go through yeah okay we may see the share price go down as much as £1.00 (£2.40/50p) but only for a very short time. When the good news starts coming in from the begining of next year it will be a big recovery for the bank's shares.

A&L is still a British Bank for a little longer yet....

stick two fingers up to this deal... Let them know.;)

Close all your account and move ur mortgage from Abbey,and Alliance &Leicester!
Support the British Bank's.

[itsmebob] 26/8/2008 18:25

A&L is still a British Bank for a little longer yet so don't go rushing to close the accounts.

I think the board have made a big mistake and do not think that this will go through I for one will be giving it two fingers as K38 says.

I would like to buy a few more to help my average price but due the possibility of it being taken over it is not good sense to do this. However if it does not get the 75% and the share price dives then I may.

[evox] 25/8/2008 21:06

To sell or not to sell? The great A&L takeover debate
ALLIANCE & LEICESTER shareholders received voting packs last week on its proposed takeover by Banco Santander, the Spanish banking giant that owns Abbey.
Each of A&L's 564,000 shareholders will have until September 16 to decide on the £1.3 billion bid, which would see A&L merge with Abbey.
The board has unanimously recommended that shareholders vote in favour of the takeover.
Roy Brown, the acting chairman of A&L, said in the 254-page voting pack: "The proposed acquisition would bring together in the same group two well known UK banks and create a more effective competitor in UK financial services."
So, what should shareholders consider before the vote?
If the deal goes ahead, A&L ordinary shareholders will receive one new Banco Santander share for every three A&L shares.
A&L will pay an interim dividend of 18p a share to those who held shares at the close of business on September 5. That payment will be made four days before the proposed takeover date of October 10.
Experts say, however, that the takeover is not a great deal for investors.
A&L shares reached a high of £11 two years ago, and the Spanish bank's bid values A&L at just 335p a share. This factors in the 18p dividend.
"A&L shares have been on brokers' sell list for a number of months," said Richard Hunter of adviser Hargreaves Lansdown.
Brown has said that A&L faces "significant external risks" – from the slowdown in the economy and continuing turbulence in financial markets.
A takeover by Santander would link A&L with Europe's second-largest bank after HSBC. Santander has operations in Latin American economies, which also helps spread risk from western Europe.
For those with a large number of shares, the takeover could help diversify their portfolio, giving access to a "well respected overseas bank", said Hunter.
However, he added: "For someone with only a few shares, you may consider selling them for practical reasons. Buying into European shares means the commission you pay will be higher when you sell and there's also an exchange-rate risk."
If shareholders sell before September 5, they will not be entitled to receive the interim dividend. Those who want to vote by post need to ensure their forms are received by September 14.
Votes are not being accepted by fax or e-mail, but you can vote online at alliance-leicester-shareregistrars.co.uk.
Shareholders can also vote in person at an extraordinary meeting due to be held at the International Convention Centre in Birmingham on September 16.
The acquisition will take place if the majority of A&L shareholders vote in favour and the majority holds 75% or more of the total value of A&L shares.
There will also need to be regulatory approval before the deal gets the green light.

[k38] 25/8/2008 03:14

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Santander, the owner of the Abbey mortgage banks in the UK, has been linked with a prospective bid for A&L for the past 18 months.
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Speculation also arose last year that Credit Agricole, the French bank, had lined up a bid for the UK's seventh-largest banking group of about £12 a share, £6.5 billion.
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August 22, 2008

Persimmon says housing market will not worsen



August 4, 2008

Halifax cuts mortgage rates by 0.40%



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close all your account (+mortgage) with Abbey,and in Alliance & Leicester!
;)